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Understanding Christian Zionism: A Racist theology influencing US Policy on Palestine - Shared screen with speaker view
Debbie Blane
30:53
Coast Salish, Duwamish. Issaquah, Washington. Blue
jeanette cain
30:53
Jay, she/her. the occupied lands of the Zia People, NM.
Joan Deming
30:55
red blue
Shel Goldstein
30:56
Wendat Territory, now Ontario, Canada
Martha Banks
31:02
Hello from Akron, Ohio. Martha Banks she/her/hers. red, blue
Kathryn Parsons
31:13
Kate Muhanna Parsons, Chesapeake land, blue
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
31:13
If you’ve heard of AIPAC? Type redIf you’ve heard of CUFI? Type blue
Juergen Rose
31:24
try again: Juergen from Vancouver, Canada. Red and Blue typed
shirley toy
31:39
Shirley Toy (she/her) , Sacramento, CA Wellstone Dems, christian faith, red
Naomi Scheman
31:42
red
Tech Lead: Alexa she/her/hers
31:44
OK Polly, Heather and Megan are chat support - thank you all! Heather, why don't you take A-J first names, Megan K-Q, R-Z to Polly.
Dan Jares
31:59
Red from the Chicago suburbs
Sherry Segerman
32:04
Sherry Segerman from Chevy Chase, MD, red
Diane Haugesag
32:13
Red and blue! Diane Haugesag from Minneapolis, MN
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
32:18
If you’ve heard of AIPAC? Type redIf you’ve heard of CUFI? Type blue
Dennis Gong
32:22
Dennis Gong from Columbus, OH. red
Heather Arnold-Renicker (She/her)
32:24
Please make sure you are chatting "All panelists and attendees"!
Tamara Turton
32:32
Tamara, She/her, Northern CA (red)
Jerry Fenske
32:34
Jerry in San Francisco
Sharyn Ladner
32:36
Sharyn Ladner, Florida. United Methodist Women
Naomi Scheman
32:41
Boston Workers Circle, Acting for Racial and Economic Justice committee
Yael Schonzeit
32:52
Yael, currently on Secatogue Land (Fire Island) and live in Ohlone Land (SF Bay Area)
Megan (She/Hers, LA, Tongva Land)
32:54
Did you hear that last announcement? Or is it all on mute for you?
Katherine Hughes-Fraitekh
33:01
Red and Blue Katherine from Albuquerque, New Mexico, Tewa land
Elice Higginbotham
33:08
Elice Higginbotham, Tempe, Arizona, United Church of Christ Palestine-Israel Network
Megan (She/Hers, LA, Tongva Land)
33:08
Red for AIPAC Blue for CUFI
Terry Burnsed
33:13
Terry Burnsed, Denver, Colorado; Colorado May Day Club. Red AND blue
Bonnie Genevich
33:14
Bonnie from Brooklyn, Canarsie land
Promise Partner
33:22
Promise Partner, Kitsap SURJ (Kitsap County, Washington State), Suquamish Territory, red and blue
Newland Smith
33:28
Newland Smith; he/his; Evanston IL
Moji Agha
33:30
Red & Blue --- Moji Agha (Mojtaba Aghamohammadi) ; Boulder, Colorado (Arapaho Land)
Mary Tiebout
33:30
Hello from the Delaware River, on the PA side.
Megan (She/Hers, LA, Tongva Land)
33:36
You might want to try logging off and back on (and restarting Zoom). The update made everything buggy!
Darcy Ogden
33:37
Darcy she/her, Kumeyaay land, red
Simon Knaphus
33:42
Simon (he/him) Duwamish Territory (Seattle) Unitarian Universalist
Richard Lee
33:44
Richard Lee, writer, Wayland MA via South Korea.
Deb G
33:45
SURJ Boston
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
33:52
i'm gonna start!
Lindsey Jaremko
34:04
Lindsey (she/her), Tongva lands, Tujunga
Mary Tiebout
34:09
Mary Tiebout from PA. She/her/hers.
Megan (She/Hers, LA, Tongva Land)
34:21
The interpreter is spotlighted, so she’ll be front and center. If you switch off of Speaker View (at the top) to Gallery View, that should help!
Mariah Leung
34:25
Mariah Leung from Eugene - Al-Nakba Awareness Project - Hello! Red and Blue.
Cindy Nottage
34:25
Cindy from NH, UCC; Red
Rachel Cunningham
34:43
Rachel Cunningham, NYC, pronouns she/her/hers
Kathryn Parsons
34:46
Kate Muhanna Parsons, she/hers, Virginia Beach - Chesapeake land, Unitarian Universalist, blue
Heather Arnold-Renicker (She/her)
34:51
Please make sure you are chatting "All panelists and attendees"!
Anne Joh
35:24
Anne Joh from Chicago
Tech Lead: Alexa she/her/hers
35:28
Here is the link to the closed captioning to follow along! https://www.streamtext.net/player?event=CFI-SURJ
Caila Katz
35:35
Caila Katz she/Her - Miami FL SURJ
Linval DePass
35:45
Linval from Palo Alto, CA
Sarah Burnham
35:47
Sarah Burnham (she/her/hers) from settled Nipmuc land. Red
Leila Buck
35:47
Laila Buck she/her - unheeded Lenape land in Brooklyn.
Leila Buck
36:01
Thank you so much for this vital space.
Ann Muir
36:04
Ann Muir, she/her/hers, United Church of Christ, Portland Oregon, red and blue
Tech Lead: Alexa she/her/hers
36:12
If you don’t know the history of the land across what is now called the Americas you can go here https://native-land.ca/
Leila Buck
36:29
Uff auto-correct - Leila Buck, she/her, unCEDED Lenape Land in Brooklyn.
Ingrid Goldstrom
36:32
Ingrid G - SURJ MoCo - she her
Tech Lead: Alexa she/her/hers
36:38
Introduce yourself: your name/pronouns, where you are (what lands), SURJ chapter or other affiliation
Polly she/her
36:52
Hi Lydia! Yes, you should have the speaker view option on the upper right of your screen
Terry Burnsed
37:04
I am on Arapahoe, Cheyenne, and Ute land.
Carol Kuczora
37:09
Carol Kuczora, Grass Vallley, CA. Red.
Lorna Henkel
37:10
Lorna Henkel. she, her. Ramapo Lenape. red
SURJ Tech Lead: Alexa she/her/hers
37:12
That's me!
Stephen Southern
37:19
Stephen Southern he/him, Episcopal, Sacramento, CA Red & Blue
Heather Arnold-Renicker (She/her)
37:20
Please make sure you are chatting "All panelists and attendees"!
Megan (She/Hers, LA, Tongva Land)
37:23
With the video spotlighted, Speaker View won’t show the speaker. But they will be highlighted. If you double click on their icon, it should enlarge!
Martha Banks
37:25
I grew up on M
Annie Gorden
37:48
Hi everyone! Annie (she/her), SURJ San Diego (Kumeyaay lands)
Carrie Casady
37:51
Carrie, she/her, Chicago IL, land of many including Kickapoo, Potawatomi, Peoria
S C
37:51
Stephanie she/her Lake Tahoe, Washoe land
Caila Katz
37:52
Tequesta and seminole land
Sharon Strachan
38:01
Sharon from Berkeley, CA - Land of the Coastal Miwok and Ohlone she/her/hers
Martha Banks
38:08
I grew up on Narragansett and Wampanoag land.
Kim Westrick
38:09
Kim, she/her, Ohlone Land
Cory Brautigam
38:15
Cory (he/him), Philly, PA - Lenni Lenape land
Diane Haugesag
38:31
Diane Haugesag (she/her/hers), Dakota, Ojibwe lands (MN)
Sharyn Ladner
38:40
Sharyn from Florida atain, I'm also a FOSNA supporter; she/her and United Methodist Women. Miccosukees, Seminoles, Tequesta
doug thorpe
38:57
Doug Thorpe, Seattle, Duwamish land
Judy Adkins
38:58
Judy ADkins, she/her/ Tampa, Fl/ Tocoboga/Seminole
SURJ Tech Lead: Alexa she/her/hers
39:07
Hi Victoria, your hand is raised. Do you have a question or problem with your tech?
Chris Abbyad
39:10
Chris Abbyad from Austin, Texas she/her/hers
Elaine Louden
39:29
Elaine from Cincinnati, OH (she/her/hers) - Shawnee, Miami, Delaware, and Ottawa land
Heather Arnold-Renicker (She/her)
39:40
If you want to see the speaker, you can find their video, look for the three dots, and “pin” their video if you need to.
Elice Higginbotham
39:40
Elice Higginbotham, red and blue, Central Arizona, several native communities (I know too many only by their "Anglicized" names -- Pima, Papago) on this and adjacent land; Navajo nation and Hopi people in the north. She/her/hers
Judy Adkins
39:41
Jim Peterson, he/him, Tampa Fl/Tocoboga/Seminole, Humanists of the Suncoast
Stephen Southern
39:42
Will notes/handouts be available?
shirley toy
39:51
Shirley Toy - United Methodist - land is Nisenan
Megan (She/Hers, LA, Tongva Land)
40:09
FYI The interpreter is spotlighted, so you all will be watching her amazing interpretation large on your screens! If you want to swap her out for the speaker for a moment, look at the top of your screen for the highlighted box, which will let you know who’s speaking, then double click on the center of that box to swap the Speaker view for the spotlighted video!
Shel Goldstein
40:22
only see Interpreters. Not Speakers.
Heather Arnold-Renicker (She/her)
40:41
Just double click on their video!
Carol Kuczora
40:46
Carol Kuczora, Grass Valleu & Nevada City, CA, land of the Nisenon., not recognized.
Megan (She/Hers, LA, Tongva Land)
40:48
Double-click on Jonathon’s video and you’ll be all set!
Katherine Hughes-Fraitekh
41:04
It's not working to see the speaker small or large.
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
41:08
The recording and resources will be sent to everyone a few days after the call.
Natalie Ginsberg
41:09
The speakers videos aren’t visible even small
Caila Katz
41:11
Same here
Megan (She/Hers, LA, Tongva Land)
41:17
If you want to see the speaker, double-click on their image!
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
41:20
The recording and resources will be sent to everyone a few days after the call.
Elice Higginbotham
41:35
I don't see any speaker images
Natalie Ginsberg
41:38
Their images are not shown, only the highlighted speaker
Kathryn Parsons
41:39
don't see the speakers either
Megan (She/Hers, LA, Tongva Land)
41:43
(You might need to scroll to find them…look for Rochelle)
Shel Goldstein
41:43
there is nothing to double click on
Miranda James
41:49
There is no image of speakers
Alanna Paris
41:50
Yeah it’s only the ASL interpreter
Debbie Blane
41:52
I don’t see anything to click on either
ASL Interpreter - Churyl
41:58
Try gallery mode?
Sarah Burnham
42:05
we don’t have access to gallery mode
Natalie Ginsberg
42:06
Perhaps only panelists can see other panelists— normal attendees cannot see gallery mode
Kathy Brohawn
42:09
I would like to see the speaker and not the i interpreter how do I do thatl
Debbie Blane
42:14
thank-you
Katherine Hughes-Fraitekh
42:14
Thank you! Now it's fixed!
Shel Goldstein
42:14
thank you
Yael Schonzeit
42:19
Better!
Elice Higginbotham
42:29
Got it! Thanks!
Dicksie Mathison
43:19
Much better.
Anne Remley
43:19
I see only interpreter!
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
43:50
Thanks for your patience, we are still learning all the tricks of Zoom!
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
44:23
https://www.fosna.org/
Megan (She/Hers, LA, Tongva Land)
44:37
Did you try double-clicking on Rochelle’s icon? She should be at the top of your screen?
SURJ Tech Lead: Alexa she/her/hers
44:46
Hi S C, your hand is raised. Do you have a question or problem with your tech?
Terry Burnsed
45:05
If, as is the case with me, we have to leave the webinar early, where can we later access the recording of the webinar?
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
45:35
We will send the recording and resources out to all registrants in a few days.
Terry Burnsed
45:44
Thank you!
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
46:15
Some folks did get the recording of the 1st webinar...we've had 400+ more folks registered since then! We will send that with the follow-up.
Terry Burnsed
46:35
Great!
Caila Katz
46:50
So very true
shirley toy
47:08
unable to see any picture.
Sherry Segerman
50:03
am really disappointed in this. It’s not what I expected, which is how Evangelical Christians are racist. I’m Jewish so I have a REALLY hard time with people who promote & encourage the BDS movement. I see it as basically anti-semitic, & I am a supporter of Israel’s fighting for its life, even with all its problems. Why not work for PEACE with Palestentians & Jews?
Polly she/her
50:06
Hi Shirley, Can you tell me what you see?
Jerry Fenske
51:11
I'm with Sherry
shirley toy
51:15
black screen
Katherine Hughes-Fraitekh
51:43
BDS is not anti-Semitic. That's part of the Israeli propaganda. It's merely a nonviolent strategy and tactics used by Americans and South Africans and others around the world to fight larger military powers to gain freedom and justice.
Moji Agha
52:05
Un-demonization >> Decolonization
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
52:13
We can assure you that we are just as interested in fighting anti-Semitism. We want all people, Jews and Palestinians both, to thrive and live in safety.
Katherine Hughes-Fraitekh
52:25
How Can we call for an end to violent armed struggle and yet undermine and outlaw nonviolent tactics that are used by our own Civil Rights movement, our BLM movement, women's rights movement and other groups around the world.
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
52:51
this background is important to understanding why Christian Zionism (which is anti-Semitic) is so problematic and deadly
Linval DePass
52:59
I agree with Katherine! She is absolutely correct!
Bonnie Genevich
53:00
How can their be peace when, for ex. Israelis just destroyed an ancient Muslim cemetery to make way for a settlement? for
Leila Buck
53:40
Thank you Katherine and Anne, and those who are uncomfortable hearing this painful history, please do your best to listen through that discomfort.
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
53:47
Stay with us, beloveds.
Terry Burnsed
54:16
Jewish Voice for Peace is an organization (though not Jewish, I am a member--that's how inclusive JVP is!) which supports the BDS movement. Judaism and Jewish-ness are not synonymous with colonialism; but Zionism IS a form of colonialism.
SURJ Tech Lead: Alexa she/her/hers
54:18
Captions please!
shirley toy
54:26
is everyone seeing a blank screen?
Diana Brito
54:29
Sherry Segerman, they are giving a background. I thought that both the Israeli’s and Palestinians were Semites. https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/Semite
Jerry Fenske
54:29
Out of here
Leila Buck
54:41
I have seen this firsthand in the West Bank with my Jewish husband and many Israelis and other Jews who support all that you are seeing, however uncomfortable it may be to hear and reckon with.
Terry Burnsed
54:54
Sorry to hear it, Jerry Fenske!
Linval DePass
55:04
I am also proud to be a Christian member of JVP!!
Katherine Hughes-Fraitekh
55:19
I'm also a member of JVP which focus on a consistent definition of human rights and justice for all. If not Know is another important Jewish-lead organization fighting anti-racism and settler colonialism in the US and abroad.
Miranda James
55:28
If you are seeing a blank screen you might have to close and reenter the zoom
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
55:54
Attendees are not visible. We can't see you and you can't see each other.
shirley toy
55:55
US supports a lot of oppression throughout the world and especially supports Israel
Dicksie Mathison
56:02
I am a Christian member of JVP, too. Am very supportive of all that they are doing.
Simon Knaphus
56:05
will you please share the link for that video?
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
56:23
We'll send out all the links with the recording in the follow-up email.
Natalie Ginsberg
56:27
What percentage of the Israeli defense budget comes from the US?
Martha Banks
57:29
US also pays Israel to train and arm US police.
Diane Haugesag
58:07
And Israeli surveillance on equipment the US/Mexico border...
Heather Arnold-Renicker (She/her)
58:19
It’s several billion dollars
Sandra Kece
58:23
Yes, things are dire in Gaza. So sad.
Alanna Paris
59:25
Israel also gets the money with no strings attached. We give it to them to use however they please, no matter how egregious.
Natalie Ginsberg
59:32
Yes the US buys Israeli technology, but what percentage of the Israeli budget is from the US? A few billion sounds like a small percentage
Alexa Klein-Mayer
59:40
The aid currently constitutes almost a fifth of Israel's gross defense budget
Terry Burnsed
59:58
According to Wikipedia (I know, but quick reference) Israel's defense budget of 20.5 billion and 3.8 billion comes from the U.S.
Natalie Ginsberg
01:00:14
Thanks Terry!
shirley toy
01:00:19
now I can see screen - i logged off and back in
Sandra Kece
01:00:34
Welcome back, Shirley!
Polly she/her
01:00:34
Great!
shirley toy
01:02:14
I cannot believe how evangelical Christians can support Trump
Linval DePass
01:02:50
When presenting this kind of propaganda, please say "Christian" when you describe it. This Christianity has nothing to do with Jesus.
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
01:02:52
Just so we know, it's not only evangelicals. Polling shows that the majority of all white Christians support him. That's across the board.
Terry Burnsed
01:03:06
And, of course, that's the direct aid. As many others are posting, when you include Deadly Exchange (Israeli training of U.S. cops), and sales to U.S. of Israeli arms, tech, and surveillance equipment, it's much, much more.
Anne Joh
01:03:15
I hope we will also examine the insidious Christian zionism among those who think they are for human rights, freedom, etc. all the liberal ideals. With evangelicals we know, like overt racism…but Christian zionism among liberal ‘good’ people needs further discussion. And…theological logic under it.
shirley toy
01:03:17
even present in Democratic Party as well
Moji Agha
01:04:56
Christian Zionism >>> Doctrine of Disvovery
Anne Joh
01:05:08
yes!
Sandra Kece
01:05:51
Wow!! What a huge difference!!
Terry Burnsed
01:06:19
Yes! The Doctrine of Discovery predates modern Zionism by some centuries. D of D begins in the 15th century with Papal Bulls such as Inter Caetera and Romanus Pontifex.
Kathryn Parsons
01:06:21
the only reason I have heard of CUFI is from the 101 webinar 2 weeks ago
Dennis Kortheuer
01:06:23
Do you include members of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in your count of evangelicals? They consider themselves evangelical but they are not christian zionists. I think the better term is Christian fundamentalist.
Kathryn Parsons
01:06:32
prior to that I'd not heard of them
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
01:08:26
"evangelical" is hard to define for data purposes per professional researchers I've discussed this with. It's important to remember that it's actually a majority of all white Christians, which includes "liberal" denominations, support trump.
Alanna Paris
01:08:34
I think it may be a good idea that instead of trying to not include your brand of Christianity in the Christian Zionist camp it might be better to realize most Christians are Christian Zionists whether they are loud about it or not, or rather, do not even have a real opinion on it (which is deadly) and therefore we need to radically change our church culture to address this issue because it is rarely brought up unless it is in support of the State of Israel
Michael Leff
01:08:37
I also think it's important to recognize that a Jewish person can consider themselves Zionist and yet still disagree with Netanyahu and with the human rights violations that have been perperated.
waddah sofan
01:09:12
Christian Zionists is the right term. Bc the motive behind it is to support Zionists vision which is to control the world.
Terry Burnsed
01:09:28
Indigenous activist and scholar Steve Newcomb has written extensively on the Doctrine of Discovery. for example in this shorter document: http://ili.nativeweb.org/sdrm_art.html
Moji Agha
01:09:48
Orientalism >> Doctrine of Discovery >> White Supremacy >> Antisemitism >> Islamophobia
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
01:10:01
Christians should examine our response to distance ourselves from the harm anti-Semitism and Christian Zionism do -- these ideologies run deep in white western Christianity and all Christians benefit from it,
Alanna Paris
01:10:15
^^^^^^
Anne Joh
01:10:17
@Moji…yes!!
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
01:10:33
the motive behind Christian Zionism is for white wealthy Christians to run the world.
Marjorie Logman
01:10:41
John Hagee told me that when he goes to Israel he does not talk to any Jews.
Moji Agha
01:11:08
Thanks Anne!
waddah sofan
01:13:02
Muslims are consider closer to Christian faith than Jewish faith.
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
01:13:55
Waddah, this also sounds anti-Semitic. We are not supporting anti-Semitism here.
Mary Tiebout
01:14:53
Mark Charles, a member of the Navajo nation, is a candidate for US President. At a conference at Princeton Univ last year (Christianity and White Supremacy), Mark made the connection between the Doctrine of Discovery and Christian Zionism.
waddah sofan
01:15:06
i can’t be accuse of anti-semitisim, bc i am a semitic!!!
Alanna Paris
01:15:22
I’ve met Mark Charles and he is a really rad guy. He is a wonderful orator and such a great force in the fight for liberation
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
01:16:17
Let's stay focused on Jonathan's presentation, please folks. Important information being shared here.
Moji Agha
01:16:44
Waddah, Zionism is not the same as Judaism. Zionists want Muslims to distrust Judaism, so they can be accused of Antisemitism.
Alicen Roberts
01:16:53
Thank you for speaking up, Rev. Ann. Care is essential in our rhetoric, to not fall into the legacy of Christian produced anti-semitic tropes about “Jewish” people, such as the idea that Zionism is trying to “control the world”. This perpetuates dangerous anti-Jewish sentiment, and is unhelpful and counterproductive to improving the conditions for Palestinians and promoting human rights for all people. I agree with Michael Leff’s comment too— there are many people who support a Jewish state throughout history, Jewish and Christian, who also condemned human rights abuses such as murder, stealing land, colonialism etc, in the past and now. I guess it would be helpful to further unpack the history and term Zionism, so as to avoid dangerously simplifying it.
Megan (She/Hers, LA, Tongva Land)
01:17:25
It’s a common misconception that we cannot be prejudiced against our own group. As a white woman, I can say that that is not necessarily always the case. Please take care with your language, so that the point you wish to convey matches the words you use!
waddah sofan
01:17:39
Judaism is the core of zionism. with respect to the good jewish fox
Chris Abbyad
01:18:03
not all evangelicals are Zionist. Here is the link to Evangelicals for middle east peace https://www.facebook.com/pages/category/Nonprofit-Organization/Evangelicals-for-Middle-East-Understanding-189859341036576/
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
01:18:04
That is is anti-Semitic, Waddah. That will not be tolerated here.
Rochelle Watson
01:18:38
Claiming Jews are trying to control the world is anti-Semitic. Here is a powerful resource for fighting anti-semitism within our movements: https://www.jfrej.org/news/2017/11/understanding-antisemitism-an-offering-to-our-movement
Megan (She/Hers, LA, Tongva Land)
01:18:39
Please listen to what Rev. Anne (and others) are saying, with respect to expectations of decorum and respect here.
Sandra Kece
01:18:43
Judaism is a religion; Zionism is an ideology.
Michael Leff
01:18:44
Well said Alicen
waddah sofan
01:19:09
ya as the christianity and KKK
SURJ Tech Lead: Alexa she/her/hers
01:19:15
ok removing waddah
Heather Arnold-Renicker (She/her)
01:19:20
Let’s listen to the folks giving their time here, all. There is important information being shared.
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
01:19:24
Let's stay focused on the presentation please, thanks everyone! This is challenging stuff that brings up a lot. Stay with it.
waddah sofan
01:19:25
kkk are considered christians
Michael Leff
01:19:26
I'm hearing so much anti-Semitism in this chat. It's very disheartening.
Linval DePass
01:20:06
If this is true, maybe you need to adjust your hearing!
Moji Agha
01:21:27
Waddah, Zionists (and "Christian" Zionists) want colonialized Muslims to believe "Judaism is the core of Zionism" (as you say), so they can demonize them as Anti-Semitic.
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
01:21:36
Hi everyone. We have removed Waddah.
pamela shaw
01:21:39
I'm with Michael Leff. I'm listening and hoping that this is just background, but I continue to hear Anti-Semitic attitudes
Terry Burnsed
01:22:01
I'm hearing some antisemitism and that antisemitism being --rightfully!--called out. Our language must be precise, so that legitimate opposition to Zionism doesn't become tainted by antisemitism; which is all too real a scourge also to be opposed.
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
01:22:39
Let's focus on the presentation. Please know anti-Semitism will not be tolerated. It is possible to critique the actions of the state of Israel, and not be anti-Semitic.
George Evalt
01:22:41
Dispensationalism, what CUFI is about, is NOT a supported theology by any of the mainline Christian denominations. It was invented in the late 1800s using a unique interpretation of Scripture.
Anne Remley
01:22:50
Support Judaism but not a Jewish-only Nation
Theodore Hexter
01:22:53
I wish people would stop conflating that this forum is anti-Semitic. Israel was encouraged by anti-Semetic people.
Katherine Hughes-Fraitekh
01:23:31
It is also OK to be anti-Zionist, while not being anti-Semitic. This is important to reinforce and understand.
Michael Leff
01:23:37
^^^ No it was not Theodore. That in and of itself is an anti-Semitic comment
Dicksie Mathison
01:23:54
But it is supported by the many evangelical denominations.
pamela shaw
01:24:04
yes, Katherine!
Terry Burnsed
01:24:04
Absolutely! Zionism and imperialism both conflate anti-Zionism with antisemitism. Let us not give that lie any ammunition!
Polly she/her
01:24:07
Let's stay focused on the presentation please, thanks everyone!
Theodore Hexter
01:24:15
I come from a Jewish family
Polly she/her
01:24:17
Let's stay focused on the presentation please, thanks everyone!
Mariah Leung
01:24:43
Just curious, Ro, does Jews for Racial and Economic Justice (JFREJ) endorse BDS and especially the Palestinian right of return?
Michael Leff
01:24:44
Theodore, that means nothing. There are many self-hating Jews.
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
01:25:07
A reminder to Christian beloveds here: regardless of denomination, anti-Semitism runs deep and elements of Christian Zionism are also there. I was taught dispensationalism as a legit theology in the Presbyterian Church USA, a mainline denomination.
Shel Goldstein
01:25:46
Maybe STOP the Chat til after the Presentation.
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
01:25:52
We as Christians need to examine our discomfort, the same way we as white people need to examine our discomfort with naming white supremacy.
Alanna Paris
01:25:53
^agreed
Sharyn Ladner
01:26:15
Yes, agreed
Polly she/her
01:26:20
Thank you Rev Anne!!
Katherine Hughes-Fraitekh
01:26:23
The chat is an important part of discussion and interaction. We're able to watch and chat. Others who don't want to chat can just watch.
Kelly Holiday
01:26:35
Exactly, Anne
Terry Burnsed
01:26:42
thank you Rev. Anne and Jonathan and SURJ. I have to attend another Zoom mtg. on Palestine, so thank you for having and recording this.
Carol Kuczora
01:27:19
I'm trying to read and listen at the same time. Missing half of everything
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
01:27:51
It's ok to close the chat (you can do that) and just focus on the presentation.
Sandy W
01:29:02
where will this recording be available? I missed the first half
Alanna Paris
01:29:10
They are going to email it to us
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
01:29:19
We will send the recording and resources out to all registrants in a few days.
Megan (She/Hers, LA, Tongva Land)
01:29:25
You should receive a follow-up email after the webinar.
Sandy W
01:29:29
ok thanks
pamela shaw
01:29:31
I have to leave for another webinar. I will watch the rest of the recording. I want to continue to learn, and am interested to hear where this goes. However, I think that this presentation was misleading.
jonathan Kuttab
01:29:36
This is Jonathan Kuttab. I am listening to your webnar
Katherine Hughes-Fraitekh
01:29:37
Important work from Alex Awad and Jonathan Kuttab. We tried in ABQ to get meetings with local CUFI leaders and they referred us to the contacts nationally and in Israel. Access and getting in to the discussion is the key challenge. We have to keep trying.
Moji Agha
01:29:55
Dear Rev. Anne, I believe understanding the "culture-analysis" of "otherist" demonization is crucial. Given my background (please google my first and last name for my mini-bio) I think I can be of help. Please contact me. >>> moji.agha@gmail.com
Sharyn Ladner
01:30:00
I must leave now, please send me the recording/transcript. Christian Zionism is a tough nut to cract.
shirley toy
01:30:02
my screen stuck on 1 picture - hopefully i can watch recording later
Megan (She/Hers, LA, Tongva Land)
01:31:10
@Dorothy, she’s screen sharing, so you won’t see her icon large unless you double-click on it.
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
01:31:37
The recording should show the screenshare presentations better. some people's computer systems aren't powerful enough to show the screenshare.
Marjorie Logman
01:31:40
I was part of the Christian Zionists and left and it took awhile to deprogram and now want to speak on it. It was almost like leaving a cult.
Anne Remley
01:31:43
Please put Rochelle on screen, not the interpreter
Katherine Hughes-Fraitekh
01:31:59
Interesting Marjorie. Would love to learn more.
Linval DePass
01:32:16
I agree with Anne!
Megan (She/Hers, LA, Tongva Land)
01:32:18
Hi, all! If you’d like to see the speaker large, double-click on their icon and it will swap with the screen share or the interpreter!
Mariah Leung
01:32:54
I'm grateful that Jewish Voice for Peace "unequivocally" opposes Zionism. Does JFREJ and SURJ do so also? https://jewishvoiceforpeace.org/zionism/?fbclid=IwAR2g_L8M_YQOqlk8YIh7XmjoOnlsIejD_PWxn1pa5a1iN5FRmZ2DgcaMEq0
Shel Goldstein
01:33:04
there is no icon for Rochelle
Caila Katz
01:33:15
^
Megan (She/Hers, LA, Tongva Land)
01:33:25
Try scrolling through your icons and look for Rochelle, so you can find her!
Debbie Blane
01:33:42
Where are the icons?
Shel Goldstein
01:33:53
nothing to scroll. just interpreter
Katherine Hughes-Fraitekh
01:33:55
Good question Mariah. Can we get a clear position from SURJ? I assumed they do and have worked on immigrant rights issues. Can someone, Rev. Anne, please confirm? Thanks!
Theodore Hexter
01:34:02
She’s not there
Richard Lee
01:34:48
Thank you all.
Megan (She/Hers, LA, Tongva Land)
01:35:01
Try scrolling to the top of your screen, and look for the small green circle at the top left. Click on it to minimize the screen. Then the icons should appear at the top of your screen!
SURJ Tech Lead: Alexa she/her/hers
01:35:41
hi folks. after the video I'm going to "stop video" for Jonathan (not "stop sharing") and try to reset Rochelle's video so she shows up. thanks for your patience with this.
Theodore Hexter
01:36:36
?
Polly she/her
01:36:51
Minimize your screen
Marjorie Logman
01:36:56
It has been my desire to be able to speak on it. I have gone back to some of the people and they rebuke me. I have some of their literature. I thank God I am free. Something in me said this could not be the God of the Universe. I still cannot understand what disturbs my spirit when I pray with them. I want to help
Polly she/her
01:37:04
To see the windows on the top of the screen f speakers
Polly she/her
01:37:39
Does it minimize your screen?
Anne Remley
01:37:41
I don't see the icons when I click on the green circle top left.
SURJ Tech Lead: Alexa she/her/hers
01:37:42
Hi folks, thanks for your patience with the video tonight. We'll try to reset after this so you can see Rochelle.
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
01:37:56
Hi Marjorie - I'm so glad you're here. Rochelle is about to give us actions we can take!
Diane Haugesag
01:38:17
Wow Marjorie - you have an important story to tell!!
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
01:38:45
https://www.fosna.org/ FOSNA has good resources on their site
Polly she/her
01:39:02
Thanks for your patience, I think the tech lead is working to reset it
Katherine Hughes-Fraitekh
01:39:35
Such important work FOSNA and the coalition. Thanks for being there and disrupting the lies and speaking truth to power. This is not easy as many of us know!
Jay Andrews
01:40:00
nice work!
Dennis Kortheuer
01:41:26
Just to complicate things even further: Not all zionist agree on issues like equal rights for palestinians, the settlements, etc. There was even a branch of zionism in the early years that is called cultural zionism. They believed in sharing the land equally with the inhabitants who already lived there. They were of course a fringe group within zionism but are another example that zionism has many facets.
George Evalt
01:41:50
So does the Peace Not Walls site in the ELCA website.. www.elca.org search on peace not walls.
Anne Remley
01:42:07
See Stephen Sizer's books about Christian Zionism's distortion of biblical passages.
Alanna Paris
01:42:47
PASSAGES IS SCARY BAD
Sandy W
01:43:12
Rev Anne: Besides SURJ and FOSNA, what other organizations are hosting webinars/zoom to further our education on this matter?
Jay Andrews
01:43:22
why not to get christian youth to trip to Palestine
Caila Katz
01:43:24
Is birthright tied to zionism?
Alanna Paris
01:43:42
There are programs that take Christians to Palestine, Middle East Studies Program through BestSemester does :)
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
01:44:19
Sandy I don't know specifically but we can send some suggestions with the follow-up email
David Wildman
01:44:30
Eye Witness Palestine does great delegations. It used to be called Interfaith Peacebuilders.
Jay Andrews
01:45:03
Nice! is there a way to duplicated the Best Semester across usa colleges
Sandy W
01:45:06
thank you Anne
Leila Buck
01:45:07
Wow I had to take a break for family dinner and in reading the chat, I really appreciate and am so grateful to those who are problematizing the simplification of how we define anti-Semitism vs. anti-Zionism, and want to add that many Arabs are Semites, so the more accurate term I believe we should be using for what concerns people is anti-Judaism, which is not the same as anti-Zionism either.
Katherine Hughes-Fraitekh
01:45:08
Thanks Rochelle: Totally agree we haven't done a good job with intersectional anti-racism and focused on faith-based centrist groups as well as Zionist Christians. I agree that it's changing and due to all the groups you mentioned.
Stephen Southern
01:45:35
Sabeel and MECA
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
01:45:36
Turtle Island is this continent we live on
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
01:45:51
It's an indigenous name for this continent
Alanna Paris
01:45:54
So the BestSemester is able to be attended through any CCCU college (I have serious issues with CCCU but..) BestSemester is great though and takes students to Palestine and refugee camps to show the reality along with teaching liberation theology
Diane Haugesag
01:46:00
Anera is a good organization as well
Alicen Roberts
01:46:06
Thank you for adding that nuance, Dennis. It think its critical to self-educate more on the history and see all “the complications” (or rather, than it’s never as clean-cut as “good guys” and “bad guys” or even “racist theology” vs “antiracist theology”)
Leila Buck
01:46:08
Yes thank you for lifting up these beautiful solidarity movements! There is also ARabs for Black Lives which does some great work.
Mariah Leung
01:47:05
I remember this video and love it. Thank you.
Jay Andrews
01:47:08
nice work. free Palestine free the world
Caila Katz
01:47:28
Is Birthright connected/supportive of zionism?
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
01:47:28
Our struggles are connected. Defund police everywhere.
Michael Leff
01:47:34
Having gone on birthright, I can tell you it is very much filled with right-wing propaganda.
Rachel Payden
01:47:39
Unfortunately I have to go, but am a recent Chicago Theological Seminary grad who traveled to Israel and Palestine this past year and very much appreciate this much needed conversation. I hope to continue to connect to learn more about much needed disruption within Christianity. Thank you, Jonathan and Rochelle, for sharing your personal stories and experiences and for speaking truth. Peace and blessings—
Akhter Sadiq
01:47:44
where is the hope for the Palestinians?
Leila Buck
01:48:13
Beautiful video, thank you! Angela Davis’ book is powerful as well - Freedom is a Constant STruggle.
Sandra Kece
01:48:33
Akhter - the hope for Palestinians is here, with us.
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
01:48:37
thanks Rachel
Katherine Hughes-Fraitekh
01:48:44
Also, The Red Nation, Nick Estes, Melanie Yazzi and many members are Native Americans that are prioritizing work with Palestinians based on indigenous rights and settler colonialism that they both are fighting against. They send lots of members to Palestine on delegations to learn more. They are also working with some Christian Zionist Native Americans who don't have all the information.
Jay Andrews
01:48:49
long live Palestine
Leila Buck
01:49:02
So grateful for this forum thank you. And grateful to all those who opened their hearts and minds to this particularly when it was hard.
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
01:49:22
https://www.fosna.org/countercufi
Jay Andrews
01:49:53
in behalf of the Palestinian i say, Thank you
Jay Andrews
01:50:05
on*
Jay Andrews
01:50:32
Join BDS
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
01:50:42
I hope everyone noted that the same white people who lead CUFI are the same ones pushing racist policies in the US -- immigration, anti-worker, policing, etc. So important we are making these connections.
Rochelle Watson
01:50:51
http://fosna.nationbuilder.com/cufi_2020
Deb G
01:51:02
I don’t know ASL fluently, but from what I have learned, the ASL interpreters are amazing. Please thank them for their talents.
Janene Forman
01:51:03
Thank you so much for sharing this perspective. So glad I stayed to hear it all.
Jay Andrews
01:51:47
of course! keep us in the loop Rochelle
Saidah Traish
01:52:02
Thank you! Great discussion.
Anne Remley
01:53:25
See JVP's great statement that Zionism is NOT Judaism.
Leila Buck
01:53:37
Yes!! Go Presbyterians!
Alanna Paris
01:53:53
PCUSA for the win :)
Leila Buck
01:54:05
YES JVP is wonderful thank you so much to the members here who’ve offered such wonderful responses
Shel Goldstein
01:54:06
Do CUFI Followers call themselves “Christian Zionists” ?
shirley toy
01:54:11
where can we go to see this recording again?
doug thorpe
01:54:52
Thanks to all! great job.
Linval DePass
01:54:59
Has FOSNA had any interaction with the Catholic church on these issues?
Annie Gorden
01:55:05
Thank you all so much! I learned so much
Alicen Roberts
01:55:15
Thank you for your presentations. I wondered, have you or would you consider every doing a panel with Jewish and Christian pro-Israel/Zionist supporters? I think the counter-balance of viewpoints would be profound and helpful to give understanding.
Leila Buck
01:55:17
Churches for Middle East Peace is good too I believe?
Jay Andrews
01:55:21
are you connected with any group in Portland oreogn.
Marjorie Logman
01:55:58
Thank you so much. I am in Illinois and feel very alone as a white Evangelical. Tonight I have learned and verified what I believe.
Kelly Holiday
01:56:06
“Support BDS and Palestine will be free.
SURJ Tech Lead: Alexa she/her/hers
01:56:07
Samira we will share the links to videos when the recording is sent out. Thank you for asking!
Dan Jares
01:56:18
Thanks for all your work with this presentation!
Diana Brito
01:56:26
Thank you everyone for this lecture.
Rochelle Watson
01:56:31
Yes, there are many active FOSNA members in Portland. Send me an e-mail at rochelle@fosna.org and I can connect you.
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
01:56:53
SURJ ha s a Portland chapter, you can check our website to find that info. showingupforracialjustice.org
Diane Haugesag
01:57:29
Great discussion! Looking forward to participating on 6/28!
Alanna Paris
01:57:47
Thank you for your time and giving us your intellectual and emotional energy to give these important perspectives and challenge us in this manner :)
Sarah Burnham
01:57:47
Thank you everyone for all of your hard work
Natalie Ginsberg
01:57:49
What is AIPAC’s relationship like with CUFI?
Sandie Hanna
01:58:01
Why in the large concern about policing in the USA since George Floyd’s death, has no news media pointed out that many states have their police going to Israel to train.
shirley toy
01:58:03
thank you much - need to go
Shel Goldstein
01:58:05
Do CUFI Followers call themselves “Christian Zionists” ?
Margaret Partner
01:58:08
What does FOSNA stand for? BDS?
Diane Haugesag
01:58:12
Pope Francis has been very supportive of Palestine.
Martha Banks
01:58:14
Thank you for a great presentation.
Moji Agha
01:58:17
Please talk about Islamophobia as a form of Antisemitism
Leila Buck
01:58:26
YES Moji thank you for naming that.
Linval DePass
01:58:43
Thanks for answering my question about the Catholic church!
Akhter Sadiq
01:58:48
are you working w/ any lslamic religious communities?
Kelly Holiday
01:59:01
BDS = Boycott, Divest, Sanction
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
01:59:08
FOSNA: Friends of Sabeel North America
Randall Heyn-Lamb
01:59:09
I prefer CUFI, as in goofy
Rev. Anne, she/her/hers, SURJ-Faith Coordinator
01:59:25
BDS: boycott, divest, sanction
Jay Andrews
01:59:44
Rochelle, just send you and email. thank you
David Wildman
01:59:44
Where does most of funding for CUFI come from?
Marjorie Logman
01:59:44
I work with the Biden campaign. Have you reached out to him?
Diane Haugesag
01:59:47
The Vatican has recognized Palestine as a state.
Lorna Henkel
01:59:57
boycott what?
Jay Andrews
02:00:08
Rochelle. love you t-shirt
Moji Agha
02:00:15
Please talk about Islamophobia as a form of Antisemitism. Thank you
Martha Banks
02:00:23
We need to make sure that Americans know that Israel is providing racist training to US police.
Kelly Holiday
02:00:38
Yes, Martha!
Ann Muir
02:00:40
Rachel, Where can I get that shirt?
Kathryn Parsons
02:00:42
deadlyexhange.com
Katherine Hughes-Fraitekh
02:00:42
Boycott Israel until they follow international law and end occupation of Palestine, agree to equality within Israel of Jews, Christians and Muslims, and allow the right to refugees to return.
Sandra Kece
02:00:43
Boycotting products made and manufactured on stolen land in the illegal settlements, for one thing.
Betsy Armstrong
02:00:56
love the shirt, fundraiser?
Ann Muir
02:01:05
Rachel’s shirt
Martha Banks
02:01:32
Eyewitness Palestine
Katherine Hughes-Fraitekh
02:01:33
Many people are asking about the Deadly Exchange campaign and ADL, Israel, JINSA training of US police forces
Dawn
02:01:52
Aaron and Churyl have been AMAZING!
Shel Goldstein
02:02:13
yes, great Interpreters
David Wildman
02:02:22
US Police were racist long before Israel was created as a state. There's a convergence of interests in dominating people of color
Betsy Armstrong
02:02:25
is it still safe to go alone? drawn to return after 10 years
Natalie Ginsberg
02:02:32
I’ve heard that 1% of Palestinians living in the land are christian, is there a higher percentage of Palestinian christians living in diaspora?
Kelly Holiday
02:02:41
I went alone with a tour guide
Leila Buck
02:02:43
YES. For so long people asked “where is the Palestinian non-violent resistance?”. It has been there for so long and now it is BDS!
Leila Buck
02:03:02
Thank you so much for this space!
Carrie Casady
02:03:10
thank you !
Rochelle Watson
02:03:11
So thankful for the interpreters.
David Wildman
02:03:16
Thanks Jonathan & Rochelle!! And interpreters too!!
Marjorie Logman
02:03:27
Having been a part of them they say if you don't believe their views you are rejecting God...sad
Sandra Kece
02:03:32
Thank you all for the information! Learned quite a bit and will be looking forward to combatting CUFI.
Mariah Leung
02:03:32
Thank you all.
Natalie Ginsberg
02:03:34
Thank you! #countercufi
Leila Buck
02:03:38
Thank you Rev. Anne, Rochelle, Jonathan, and Aaron and all the interpreters!
Anne Remley
02:03:51
Yes. Pal. Christians were able most easily top leave. So MANY are in the US.
SURJ Tech Lead: Alexa she/her/hers
02:03:54
Thank you to our Aaron and Churyl for their interpretation, to Jonathan and Rochelle, and to everyone for being here tonight.
Alicen Roberts
02:03:55
Thank you panelists, organizers, interpreters, and those contributing in chat, blessings to you all
Katherine Hughes-Fraitekh
02:04:05
Thanks Rev. Anne, Rochelle, Jonathan and the great ASL interpreters.
Rochelle Watson
02:04:34
A great resource for countering anti-semitism in your organizing: https://www.jfrej.org/news/2017/11/understanding-antisemitism-an-offering-to-our-movement
Shel Goldstein
02:04:40
Some people may believe in a racist God. I do not worship One. Perhaps there IS a God who is racist, who does Choose a specific Race.
Jonathan (he/him) FOSNA
02:04:57
Please join us for Counter CUFI! http://fosna.nationbuilder.com/cufi_2020
Bonnie Genevich
02:05:51
Thank you all. May be important to acknowledge that some of the discussion raised discomfort and or anger from some who saw anti-semitism in some of the discussion
Rochelle Watson
02:06:35
Sign up to be a lead in you r community for Counter CUFI: Invest in Justice here: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLSct5rA8pluW0BVCbKgRzbP9IKdw7dDrFVbfYqGySFecBvh1ug/viewform
Leila Buck
02:06:49
Thank you so much!
Lindsey Jaremko
02:06:51
Thank you!
Debbie Blane
02:06:53
beauitiful poem!
Leila Buck
02:06:58
Bless you all.
Ben Horne
02:07:09
Looking forward to more work together!
Moji Agha
02:07:10
Thank you
Ben Horne
02:07:20
Thank you, Jonathan
Ben Horne
02:07:26
and all!