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WEAll Cymru Monthly Meeting - Speaker view
Sue Leonard
17:16
Will the presentation be shared after the event?
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
17:31
Yes I am sure we can share!
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
18:02
"framing wellbeing in a way that anyone can understand"
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
21:28
"this is not an academic exercise, we want a metric that is pragmatic and applicable"
Angharad Owen
27:41
Hi am, might have to drop out as my battery's low.. Just wanted to say I'm a freelance mapper, currently working on social value measurent for my local housing association (using Welsh TOMs and HACT). Just wondering what the difference is between measuring social value and wellbeing economy? Thanks!Also definitely interested to be part of future discussions! :)
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
28:11
Thanks Angharad, great question!
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
30:09
What could we seek to measure?# Sustainable Private GDP# Economic Cooperation# Social & cultural wellbeing# Environmental Wellbeing# Value of public services provided
sue denman
30:39
I would like to ask a question
David Llewellyn
32:04
Is mental and physical wellbeing of our communities included with the social and cultural element?
Robert Alexander
32:26
Does Well Being vary from person to person? Aren't the values going to be varied, depending on our Social Standing/Status?
VickyMollerGrwp.wales
33:00
my thoughts are that wellbeing is subjective while measuring ecoonomies is numbers and objects like movement of money. Without accepting that you have to measure feelings, eg by choices, you may struggle for ever to turn wellbeing into hard data. you can measure things people value like empowerment friendship and healthy nature close around.
jonathan richards
33:01
excellent questions Sue thanks
VickyMollerGrwp.wales
33:10
agree with sue
Stephen Priestnall, WEAll Cymru
33:24
Great question Sue
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
33:44
Who is this for? Local approaches, citizens, co-production...
Angharad Owen
34:39
Although it is always going to be hard to measure, I definitely think there's a purpose - e.g. I'd like to see a wellbeing measure included in public services procurement criteria...
VickyMollerGrwp.wales
36:04
jonathan jones be great tohear your experience, and views and recommendations Vicky@grwp.wales
Angharad Owen
36:29
Battery's dying now - thanks all for being this debate, & see you again!
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
37:09
Jonathan Richards, with colleagues, has done a lot of work around value of public services. Worth following up! Interesting approaches from elsewhere.
jonathan richards
37:09
https://www.birmingham.ac.uk/research/activity/mds/projects/haps/he/icecap/index.aspx
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
37:24
Is wellbeing too qualitative too measure?
Phill Sykes Aneurin Leisure
37:44
There needs to be a rethink around how mental and physical wellbeing is approached. It is currently reactive
Robert Alexander
38:02
Agree Sue. That's what I was saying earlier, but better verbalised by you :)
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
39:30
Other organisations are evaluating public services, eg health inspectorate Wales
sue denman
39:37
together for Change in Pembs is undertaking a study interviewing members of contrasting communities and looking at the weight of causal factors in wellbeing
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
40:32
Bronllys Well Being Park - how do you even define wellbeing? Comprehensive Wellbeing Survey - keen to partner and raise funding. Through a psychometric lens?
Stephen Priestnall, WEAll Cymru
40:36
Barry would be great to connect re survey builds etc
Jacqui - Bronllys Well Being Park CLT Ltd
40:58
The new Citizens Voice also will be evaluating Health & social Care
Jacqui - Bronllys Well Being Park CLT Ltd
41:21
We would really be interested in linking
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
41:49
Wellbeing is a perception - psychologists can try to understand from an internal perspective.
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
42:11
Application at a local level is KEY
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
43:11
A "proxy measurement" for the wellbeing economy, that people can understand and consume. It will be flawed but it will be a massively different lens on the economy than GDP.
Barry Farrell
43:35
Yes, Stephen, let's connect via email. My address is: barrymfarrell@gmail.com. Please contact me and we'll schedule a Zoom meeting. I am interested in your project.
Robert Alexander
44:14
What can a Citizen do, when and if you produce a measurement. Isn't that something that should be considered.
sue denman
44:38
please give us your definitions
jonathan richards
45:08
I worked as a GP in Merthyr and so many people had lower expectations and less hope and so my concern would be that how do ee support people
Stephen Priestnall, WEAll Cymru
45:22
Robert yes the ‘so what’ question is something we will have close to our hearts
jonathan richards
45:31
oops! Support people with lower expectations?
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
45:40
A wellbeing economy is one that serves the wellbeing of people and the planet
Ellie Harwood
46:16
There is the old adage - 'what gets measured, gets done'. Indices can be a powerful tool for improving political accountability and focusing the policy agendas of those in power too
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
47:25
Wales' Indicators were developed in 2015-16 through huge co-production exercise.
jonathan richards
47:53
Thank you Steph for asking for feedback in your recent blog https://shapingwalesfuture.blog.gov.wales/2021/06/29/national-indicators-what-has-the-pandemic-taught-us-about-how-we-measure-wellbeing/
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
48:58
What should Wales' indicators be?# Short & Manageable# Coherent and fit well with other indicators# Measure for the whole of Wales# Resonate with the public"Measuring progress towards the Wales we want"
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
51:09
Welsh Gov publishes an annual wellbeing report
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
51:28
National milestones - kind of like targets...
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
52:50
https://shapingwalesfuture.blog.gov.wales/
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
53:33
Everyone has different ideas - challenge to keep the indicator set small.
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
53:40
How do you measure biodiversity?
Dave Floyd
55:03
Thanks @Steph that’s really interesting.
sue denman
55:43
can I ask questioin
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
56:11
Will come to you next Sue Denman!
jonathan richards
56:25
The big challenge for me is response rate and sample size. Vulnerable and marginalised groups may be invisible. when I look for data on older people for example there may only be a few Merthyr respondents.
Stephen Priestnall, WEAll Cymru
57:40
Can Ipls? take Sues’s question Dawn
Phill Sykes Aneurin Leisure
57:55
100% agree with that comment Jonathan and was exactly what I intended to say
Robert Alexander
58:18
Hi Sue. You might be interested in how we would produce very local metrics. Using our product LocalitTEE that's it's idea. https://bit.ly/LocalitEEE_Metrics
Jacqui - Bronllys Well Being Park CLT Ltd
58:24
I think local authorities will have more understanding and how the economy impacts
Steph Howarth, Welsh Gov
58:26
https://gov.wales/wellbeing-wales-national-indicators
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
58:47
Could the Wales data be useable at a local level. Can we interact, drill down to local level - bring communities together to discuss what the data means to them; What are the implications for us as a community, what are our needs, strengths etc
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
59:28
Reliable enough, useful
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
59:35
"Wonka scores"???
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
01:00:14
Needs to become part of our culture
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
01:00:40
How do we get the data to be used locally? So we can understand our own local economies much more.
sue denman
01:01:25
happy to have links on locally gathered data
David Llewellyn
01:02:32
We are creating a local wellbeing index intended to stimulate and provoke enhanced community discussions such that we can support and co-produce with communities to support wellbeing. Still in development but would be very happy to learm from othersdavid.llewellyn@wales.nhs.uk
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
01:02:37
Interactivity of data >> we are hoping to use an open data platform to use and distribute the data; cooperative environments; anyone can use and engage with the data; we need some kind of useable interactive tool
jonathan richards
01:02:49
https://www.google.com/search?q=coop/wonca+charts&client=safari&rls=en&sxsrf=ALeKk02Fz1P5l6TT03RkAznTnfQBQz_Z-w:1625770466364&tbm=isch&source=iu&ictx=1&fir=lBF48voE5yXwwM%252CFTkuIuamwUQd-M%252C_&vet=1&usg=AI4_-kT559rkVTUelHGhlBN9sEoylgY4pQ&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwju6Ij5ktTxAhVJXsAKHX3JBp4Q9QF6BAgjEAE&biw=1324&bih=723#imgrc=lBF48voE5yXwwM hopefully the images will show.
Sue Leonard
01:05:20
Hyperlocal data shared with communities can result in innovative community-led solutions and action
sue denman
01:05:23
it doesn't help to have terms lie period poverty , food poverty . its ALL poverty
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
01:05:55
Ellie - child poverty action group and anti-poverty coalition; working with the doughnut for Wales; got quite a lot of child poverty data; challenge to get people to use the data they produce, really interested in getting people to use child poverty data; data at ward level feels much more tangible and meaningful; general public understand of terms might be different from technical definitions, eg Poverty - what people think you're talking about vs what you are actually talking about... Difficulty comes in getting data at a very local level. National data misses out minority groups...
Jacqui - Bronllys Well Being Park CLT Ltd
01:06:01
Ellie so impressive - can I link up with you to discuss
Stephen Priestnall, WEAll Cymru
01:06:18
Thank you Ellie - really helpful to hear your work
Ellie Harwood
01:06:26
Yes of course - email me at work eharwood@cpag.org.uk
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
01:07:13
Themes - terminology; localisation of data;
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
01:07:52
Wales has tried to name the indicators in a meaningful way, eg "healthy babies"
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
01:09:07
PSBs have to draw on the national indicators as part of their wellbeing assessments
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
01:09:11
Data maps Wales
judith - Cadwyn
01:09:31
Apologies for arriving late, so forgive me if you've covered this already. I'm involved in housing, and housing providers have direct access to large numbers of people, and are focused on wellbeing.
jonathan richards
01:10:19
Data Maps Wales has worked well for me!
Steph Howarth, Welsh Gov
01:10:47
Fab, glad to hear it Jonathan!
Steph Howarth, Welsh Gov
01:11:24
Apologies, I have to go now but thank you for inviting me along to the discussion.
Stephen Priestnall, WEAll Cymru
01:11:45
Have a great holiday Steph and thank you!
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
01:12:02
WHY IS THIS IMPORTANT?
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
01:12:58
Information is important to determining what is required for change; to work out what is necessary; to make improvements. << bottom line
Jacqui - Bronllys Well Being Park CLT Ltd
01:13:02
I am really sorry I have to go to another meeting and unfortunately need to leave - Thank you for such a useful and interesting meeting - much appreciated hope to catch up next month thanks Jacqui
Sue Leonard
01:13:43
Data should be used to inform community conversations and drive innovation. In reality it is used retrospectively to prove that something has worked and secure future funding.
Robert Alexander
01:13:56
Here's how we collate local data for each Ward, in our LocalitEEE platform model. https://blog.localiteee.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/EEESafes-LocalitEEE-Community-Circular-Economy.jpg I think showing data like this, and more, it will encourage engagement, particularly as people at their point of need, will need money, as well as local support.
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
01:14:26
Reflect on different values - we are wealthy in many ways!
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
01:14:47
Difference between Wales and Namibia
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
01:15:29
Inciting action << data should inspire and empower us on an individual level
Jonathan Tench (Future Gen team)
01:15:34
Thank you Dawn and team for convening this really important discussion. Really look forward to the next one. Hope you can send all the PPTs around. Thanks again :)
VickyMollerGrwp.wales
01:15:37
true, data has to mean to locals and lead to action or so what
Dave Floyd
01:16:02
Have to go and put the little Floyds to bed now. Great discussion and looking forward to where we get to on this. Plenty of food for thought and lots of great work already being done in this area, looking forward to connecting with.
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
01:17:10
Let's reflect on the WBFGA - seen as groundbreaking by others, but implementation slow and disappointing; can data be used to persuade politicians of the right thing to do.
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
01:18:35
WBFGA is not very popular in the poverty sector; it served to abolish focused work on child poverty.
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
01:19:52
Is GDP even something the Welsh Government can control
VickyMollerGrwp.wales
01:20:17
very interesting ellie
Sue Leonard
01:21:06
Extraordinary that an Act that focuses on the wellbeing of future generations has arguably make child poverty worse because we have lost focus
Stephen Priestnall, WEAll Cymru
01:21:08
Very useful perspective Ellie - thank you
Sue Thomas
01:22:04
Ellie - have you been able to voice these concerns to officials?
David Llewellyn
01:22:09
Sorry all - I have to go now but it has been a very enjoyable evening and very thought provoking. I would be delighted to be kept in the loop going foward.
jonathan richards
01:22:14
Thank you Ellie for important insights on ‘unintended’ consequences.
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
01:22:19
Child poverty
jonathan richards
01:22:39
Thanks for a thought-proving evening. I have to go now.
Stephen Priestnall, WEAll Cymru
01:22:56
Will politicians and policy makers change their approach without the public changing their minds?
Margot Greer, WEAll Cymru
01:23:05
there is Katherine TRebecks indicator of how many girls ride cycles to schools - that touches on many areas, and could lead to change
Sue Thomas
01:23:09
Ellie - love the cat - just had mine interrupt the call too!
VickyMollerGrwp.wales
01:23:23
when people are empowered they have hope and this makes them feel good whatever the circumsances
Barry Farrell
01:23:41
In our survey work, we have identified 97 important indicators of well-being in 8 dimensions: Employment & Income, Housing & Environment, Food & Nutrition, Transport, Energy, Leisure, Community, and Physical & Mental Health.
sue denman
01:24:06
very interested . would like further contact sue.denman@tfc.co.uk
Sue Thomas
01:24:06
Thanks for the meeting. Hope to get to the next one. Sue
Alys Wardle
01:24:08
I m very interested in the topic in general so would love to stay connected to the group - have had to work through the talk so less able to contribute
VickyMollerGrwp.wales
01:25:30
the wb future gens has never been used as a law, never been enforced
sue denman
01:25:31
implementation is a problem not that it is rubbush
VickyMollerGrwp.wales
01:25:55
agree sue that was the message
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
01:26:24
The challenge for policy makes and politicians is the influence that comes from the public; unless we create something that is easy to understand by the public, we wont be able to influence change.
VickyMollerGrwp.wales
01:26:37
good point Stephen. I am up for taking that challenge
Ellie Harwood
01:26:42
The concept is great, but implementation is really not working at the moment. Our existing systems just aren't set up to make it work - yet!
sue denman
01:27:04
sorry new email address is sue.denman@tfcpembrokeshire.org
Dawn Lyle, 4theRegion cic
01:27:37
dawn@4theregion.org.uk << keep in touch / volunteer / get involved
Alys Wardle
01:29:29
i wonder if everyone here knows the work Helena Norberg Hodge has been working on re localisation vs. globalisation.... will get a link ..
VickyMollerGrwp.wales
01:29:38
one simple way to measure is to offer people higher wages away from the wellbeing community and they reject this, conversely people willing to move to where they get lower income due to the wellbeing available
VickyMollerGrwp.wales
01:29:50
then it can be given a financial value
Alys Wardle
01:30:18
https://worldlocalizationday.org/
Phill Sykes Aneurin Leisure
01:30:29
Thanks Dawn.. This is my first time attending and will be back next month as I found it really interesting.
Stephen Priestnall, WEAll Cymru
01:30:29
This is a really interesting thought Vicky - open source type economies have some of this thinking built in
sue denman
01:30:31
great discussion , thank you all. Hi Sue Hi Vicky
Sue Leonard
01:30:40
Great to see a "superlative" of Sues on the call (my chosen collective noun for more than one Sue)!!! It happens very frequently! Thanks all for an interesting discussion.
VickyMollerGrwp.wales
01:30:41
hi sue, lets talk soon
Robert Alexander
01:30:58
Thanks Dawn. Good to listen to all speakers and their comments.
Stephen Priestnall, WEAll Cymru
01:31:03
spriestnall6@gmail.com happy to talk to anyone interested in the project!
Ellie Harwood
01:31:19
Really interesting discussion and I hope I can continue to engage with the Alliance's work :)
Margot Greer, WEAll Cymru
01:31:26
So good to see people connecting from this session
Fouren Design- Martin Rieck
01:31:28
Thank you everyone! Enjoyed the discussion today. martinjrieck@gmail.com
Amy
01:31:28
thanks all, it was great to listen to this interesting discussion!
Alys Wardle
01:31:39
thank you!