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Invisible Hand: Rights of Nature - Film & Panel Discussion - Shared screen with speaker view
Dwight Rousu
02:00:40
I do not see the invisible hand...
Angel Wang
02:01:06
I missed the film.
Kriss Kevorkian
02:03:43
Information about the rights of Nature can be found on the following links:Earth Law Centerhttps://www.earthlawcenter.org/salish-sea-initiativeCommunity Environmental Legal Defense Fundhttps://celdf.orgLegal Rights for the Salish Seahttp://legalrightsforthesalishsea.orgGlobal Alliance for the Rights of Naturehttps://www.therightsofnature.orgMovement Rightshttps://www.movementrights.orgInternational Rights of Nature Tribunalhttps://www.rightsofnaturetribunal.orgIndependent Expert Panel for the Legal Definition of Ecocide (June 2021)https://static1.squarespace.com/static/5ca2608ab914493c64ef1f6d/t/60d1e6e604fae2201d03407f/1624368879048/SE+Foundation+Commentary+and+core+text+rev+6.pdf
Cindy Black
02:04:24
If you don’t know the indigenous land where you reside on, you can look it up here:Interactive Map Reveals Which Indigenous Lands You’re Living On - https://mymodernmet.com/interactive-map-indigenous-lands/ - Native Land - https://native-land.ca/
Cindy Black
02:04:27
Sponsors:• Meaningful Movies Project - https://meaningfulmovies.org/• Fix Democracy First - https://www.fixdemocracyfirst.org/• Legal Rights for the Salish Sea – https://legalrightsforthesalishsea.org/• South Seattle Climate Action Network - http://www.southseattleclimate.org/
Margaret Pottinger
02:04:58
Hello All Gabriola Island BC
Cindy Black
02:05:00
If you don’t know the indigenous land where you reside on, you can look it up here:Interactive Map Reveals Which Indigenous Lands You’re Living On - https://mymodernmet.com/interactive-map-indigenous-lands/ - Native Land - https://native-land.ca/
Margaret Pottinger
02:05:06
Unceded Snuneymuxw Territory
Brenda Grove
02:05:16
Lenape
Cindy Black
02:05:35
Here is the Film Link & Password - “Invisible Hand”Screening page for the film: https://www.invisiblehandfilm.com/everett-meaningful-movies/PASSWORD: patron
Kriss Kevorkian
02:06:18
I’m on Puyallup land living with wild cousins including bear, deer, coyote and chipmunks, etc..
Alice Green she/they
02:07:25
Yes Cindy thank you for all you do.
JJ L.
02:07:59
In Olympia we honor the lands of the Steh Chass…..the Squaxin, Nisqually, Chehalis, Suquamish and Duwamish.
Cindy Black
02:08:05
Skaana Podcast & Orca Bites - https://www.skaana.org/Community Environmental Legal Defense Fund (CELDF) - https://celdf.org/Earth Law Center - https://www.earthlawcenter.org/
Arnold Byron
02:08:07
Mount Vernon, -- I think, Snohomish, Coastal Salish
Jana Segal-Stormont
02:08:18
Here in Tucson we are on Tohono O'odham and Yaqui land.Their contributions are included in the virtual reading of my play, "ReGeneration: The Tucson Story."One theme is returning to nature.https://regenerationstory.github.io/website/index.html
Cindy Black
02:09:51
The film will be available until tomorrow. Here is the Film Link & Password for “Invisible Hand”Screening page for the film: https://www.invisiblehandfilm.com/everett-meaningful-movies/PASSWORD: patron
Sharon Abreu
02:11:43
I live on Orcas Island, which is land of the Coast Salish peoples, including the Lummi, Saanitch, Samish and Nooksack Nations.
Carol McMahon (she/her)
02:15:53
Lynnwood - pretty sure Snohomish/Coastal Salish. Perrinville Watershed
Kriss Kevorkian
02:17:35
Please sign/share our petition to get rights of Nature for the Southern Resident Orcas. And if you are interested in helping us, please contact us! http://legalrightsforthesalishsea.org/petition/
Alice Green she/they
02:19:42
Seattle - Where we acknowledge the First Peoples of the Coastal Salish Sea Region and the Duwamish River Valley, and honor with gratitude the original stewards of this place and their generations past, present and future.
Alice Green she/they
02:20:59
The paradigm is not sustainable.
Sharon Abreu
02:23:00
There is a property rights movement where I live. Our county’s Home Rule Charter Review Commission tried to get Rights of Nature language into the Charter but were told it wasn’t in line with Washington State law. We are working to get a Statement of Community Values into the Charter, which captures the spirit of what a Rights of Nature piece would have included.
Michael Goodman
02:23:43
No it is not. Not that this fact by itself will change the supremacy of property and institutional personhood.
Michael Goodman
02:24:22
Sounds like aq good topic for a referendum.
Alice Green she/they
02:24:24
A Legal Entity is not always a human being.
Margaret Pottinger
02:24:50
Are there any Voices from the Nations here tonight ?
Alice Green she/they
02:25:18
An Ecosystem should have legal entity rights by virtue of its ability to be regenerative.
Michael Goodman
02:26:02
Yes, but corporations have the git of eternal life! lol
Carol McMahon (she/her)
02:26:23
We may need to create a new word - we are part of the ecosystem. When we view ourselves as outside of it, we get into trouble. That may be why it is considered less than.
Sharon Abreu
02:26:40
Michael, that can be changed. Corporations were not meant to be permanent entities. Not easy, though, of course.
Michael Goodman
02:27:16
No, none of this will be!
Dwight Rousu
02:27:18
It would be outstanding if nature had standing.
Alice Green she/they
02:27:25
@Carol we all should understand that we are part of nature in the new paradigm.
Carol McMahon (she/her)
02:27:54
I agree @Alice
Sharon Abreu
02:28:05
Alice, we have got to.
Michael Jr
02:28:19
Why just do the easiest thing possible, Let us legally remove non real person from own real persons, we are real, the trees are real, water is real // a corp is not real
Alice Green she/they
02:28:22
Agree @Sharon
Arnold Byron
02:28:26
The idea of property laws going only to humans can be dated to the time humans moved from being hunter gatherers to doing agriculture. At that time there were fewer than a half million humans on earth. If humans are going to enhance the rights of nature, humans will need to first reduce the population to where nature is allowed to flourish perhaps way less than a billion people.
Michael Jr
02:29:04
we need to unperson that person from being a person
Lindsey Schromen-Wawrin, he
02:29:25
@Arnold, it's consumption, not population. See https://www.sightline.org/research_item/mpblame/
Michael Goodman
02:29:39
Yes, Arnold. This is the absolute truth, and I commend you for bringing up this obvious (but overlooked) truth!
Michael Goodman
02:30:17
NO! Reducing population is just as important!
Alice Green she/they
02:30:21
An entity that exists solely to extract wealth from nature and to consume others via mergers and acquisitions is not regenerative, it is parasitic.
terry Sullivan
02:30:39
there is a river in New Zealand with legal rights. There are a few other cases. Can we learn from them?
jeff eidsness (he/his)
02:30:40
"If it's required for Democracy expect it to be attacked and muddles by corporations"
Alice Green she/they
02:31:26
Agree @Arnold
jeff eidsness (he/his)
02:31:30
muddled* - Dr Pearl
Michael Goodman
02:31:34
That's why we will have to eliminate those parasites, even if it takes imprisonment, internment, or other methods to remove them.
Margaret Pottinger
02:32:06
Agree Michael Goodman .
Charles-GPWA
02:32:30
I don't think you could win a lawsuit against an ecosystem that every action it performs is to protect and not destroy.
Dwight Rousu
02:32:35
European Union has had some favorable decisions for rights of the environment. How does their law differ from ours in this area?
Carol McMahon (she/her)
02:32:58
We have to talk about what the purpose of some of the regulatoray organizations is, as well. Like… the EPA. What is their purpose? I found that an interesting point in the movie.
Alice Green she/they
02:33:18
@Micheal exactly, they are literally sucking the life out of all of us earthlings.
Michael Goodman
02:34:00
CEO's, corporate attys., lobbyists, persons holding security clearances, and entire other categories will all have to be put out of commission.
Kriss Kevorkian
02:34:19
Earth Law Center has an Earth Law Map that might be of interest to some of you: https://www.earthlawcenter.org/map-of-earth-law
Alice Green she/they
02:34:24
@Carol true. Until Pruitt was the new EPA guy I always assumed they were working for us.
Becky Hoepcke
02:34:37
I think the biggest argument against this movement is the the over riding perception that groups like the EPA, etc. were tasked with protecting the environment.
Michael Goodman
02:34:53
Not when GOP appointees were ruining the EPA!
Alice Green she/they
02:34:59
Absolutely- we are all on the front line!
Sharon Abreu
02:35:00
Alice, I put that in my Move to Amend jingle several years ago.
Alice Green she/they
02:35:36
Thank you @Kriss
Michael Goodman
02:35:47
We should keep that fact in mind when we block the roads leading to CIA headquarters.
Sharon Abreu
02:36:14
What happened in Grant County is very encouraging. Still, people should not have to go through this.
Alice Green she/they
02:37:25
His ideas included the commodification of human labor tho.
Michael Goodman
02:37:36
It's encouraging, but I'm not sure that it will be lasting. A GOP-dominated legislature in PA could change that all very easily by limiting home rule!
Helen Wheatley
02:37:45
Smith was talking about specialization of labor, not a theory of everything.
Helen Wheatley
02:38:10
The film was right to really lay it at the feet of Milton Friedman.
Michael Goodman
02:38:40
Yes, helen -- don't forget Chile!
Becky Hoepcke
02:38:49
This is also true of the lack of term limits for legislators.
Alice Green she/they
02:38:51
He also talked about keeping the working poor well fed enough to work but not idle enough to be educated or too full of initiative.
Dwight Rousu
02:38:59
Milton Friedman was from a different era too
Jana Segal-Stormont
02:39:08
Outdated like 1872 mining law that needs to be repealed
Lindsey Schromen-Wawrin, he
02:39:08
http://democracythemepark.org/help-ive-been-colonized-and-i-cant-get-up/
Michael Goodman
02:39:22
Yes, but he's still very much around!
Liz Lafferty
02:39:31
But, are they ready for change to the point of bankrupting their community?
Alice Green she/they
02:39:38
Wasn’t he an Ayn Rand fanboy? 9Milton Friedman)
Cindy Black
02:40:24
^yes he was
Alice Green she/they
02:40:24
Which is why the WTO was such a landmark.
Michael Goodman
02:40:46
Very nuch so, and then there is the whole school of "Austrian Economics"
Liz Lafferty
02:42:00
What was the title of the second book Lindsay mentioned?
Chantel Thurman
02:42:29
Braiding Sweetgrass by Robin Wall Kimmerer
Helen Wheatley
02:42:31
Part of the problem is the laws that create the planning process. Cities say, “we are just following the planning process laid out for us.” It is really hard to disrupt.
Alice Green she/they
02:43:04
Regulating trade and protecting profits is why the far right and far left both agreed about the WTO- it took national rights away from people and gave corporations more rights.
Kriss Kevorkian
02:43:17
Link to Braiding Sweetgrass info: https://www.robinwallkimmerer.com/books
Liz Lafferty
02:43:28
Thank you Chantel, but it was the book before that I missed the title of.
Cindy Black
02:44:02
Post your questions in chat or raise your hand. Please keep your questions brief so we can get more in. Thanks!
Amy Morrison
02:44:43
I am curious about the legal rights of the Snake River as a wild, dam free river. How would a group of us get started on pursuing this?
Mary Rollins
02:44:58
^^^^
Cindy Black
02:45:03
From Mindy - Lindsey: Please elaborate on the colonization problem you referred to tangentially
Kriss Kevorkian
02:45:46
Amy, Legal Rights for the Salish Sea is working on the Snake River b/c it impacts the SROs and their right to thrive.
Alice Green she/they
02:46:05
@Amy that crosses Idaho, Washington, and Oregon but the Snake River is all the same regional branch of the Army Corps of Engineers.
Nancy Hansen
02:47:44
What level do you see the movement starting? Local small issues like seen so far? Corporations need laws at federal level to keep their present system working the way it works for them. So how are local rights of nature wins going to really make change?
Alice Green she/they
02:48:01
That makes a lot of sense.
Kriss Kevorkian
02:48:14
Amy, more info about the Snake River can be found here with the work Earth Law Center is doing: https://www.earthlawcenter.org/snake-river
Amy Morrison
02:48:34
“We view restoring the lower Snake River – a living being to us, and one that is injured – as urgent and overdue." Shannon Wheeler, Chair of the Nimiipuu (Nez Perce) I find this quote very inspiring.
Amy Morrison
02:48:45
@Kriss - thanks, I'll check it out.
Alice Green she/they
02:48:47
Thank you Lindsey.
Lindsey Schromen-Wawrin, he
02:48:51
Mark Spence, book, Dispossessing the Wilderness: Indian Removal and the Creation of National Parks
Alice Green she/they
02:55:43
Thank you Micheal.
Beverly Parsons
02:55:47
Thank you Michael, for your excellent comments.
Michelline Halliday
02:55:56
Thank you Michael
Alice Green she/they
02:56:13
Free the Snake!
Alice Green she/they
02:57:12
They are projecting a false reality.
Alice Green she/they
02:57:38
Truth.
Cindy Black
02:58:01
Skaana Podcast & Orca Bites - https://www.skaana.org/Community Environmental Legal Defense Fund (CELDF) - https://celdf.org/Earth Law Center - https://www.earthlawcenter.org/
Cindy Black
02:58:35
The film will be available until tomorrow. Here is the Film Link & Password for “Invisible Hand”Screening page for the film: https://www.invisiblehandfilm.com/everett-meaningful-movies/PASSWORD: patron
Alice Green she/they
02:59:27
Raising conscious awareness is foundational.
Kriss Kevorkian
02:59:52
https://www.facebook.com/groups/219205718581235/
Michael Jr
03:00:45
http://legalrightsforthesalishsea.org/petition/
Dwight Rousu
03:00:53
and run for office...
Sharon Abreu
03:01:36
Here’s a Breach the 4 Lower Snake River Dams song - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B2xBJLAokow
Cindy Black
03:01:48
Sponsors:• Meaningful Movies Project - https://meaningfulmovies.org/• Fix Democracy First - https://www.fixdemocracyfirst.org/• Legal Rights for the Salish Sea – https://legalrightsforthesalishsea.org/• South Seattle Climate Action Network - http://www.southseattleclimate.org/
Cindy Black
03:02:02
Community Environmental Legal Defense Fund (CELDF) - https://celdf.org/
Sharon Abreu
03:02:03
And “What Would Granny Say”, about the matriarch of J-Pod - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OpSDCeaVXlQ&list=OLAK5uy_m2hxkMxrOiXViqJb2YgXkt7WIyf6TUhyU
Alice Green she/they
03:03:27
Great point.
Chantel Thurman
03:03:33
+++
Sharon Abreu
03:03:42
I don’t know why Thomas Linzey left CELDF, but I have had a lot of respect for him in the past. I understand that his new organization, The Center for Democratic and Environmental Rights, Inc. (“CDER”), is focused almost entirely on advancing the rights of nature work. www.centerforenvironmentalrights.org
Alice Green she/they
03:04:44
Absolutely @ Cindy.
Alice Green she/they
03:05:22
We are all related.
Lindsey Schromen-Wawrin, he
03:05:40
I worked with Thomas Linzey for a decade, and I cannot recommend working with him any more. The rights of nature work isn't separate from the system change work.
Cindy Black
03:06:09
Skaana Podcast & Orca Bites - https://www.skaana.org/
Lynne Liu
03:06:16
Thank you everyone!!
Cindy Black
03:06:31
The film will be available until tomorrow. Here is the Film Link & Password for “Invisible Hand”Screening page for the film: https://www.invisiblehandfilm.com/everett-meaningful-movies/PASSWORD: patron
Cindy Black
03:06:34
Sponsors:• Meaningful Movies Project - https://meaningfulmovies.org/• Fix Democracy First - https://www.fixdemocracyfirst.org/• Legal Rights for the Salish Sea – https://legalrightsforthesalishsea.org/• South Seattle Climate Action Network - http://www.southseattleclimate.org/
Sharon Abreu
03:06:50
The film is very well done. I hope more screenings will happen.
JJ L.
03:07:10
Loved the movie, appreciated the webinar....excellent subject. Thanks for all!
Ben Bama
03:07:11
Thank you all so much!!
Nancy Dolan
03:07:13
thank you Diane Gordon, Everett MM!
Alice Green she/they
03:07:17
Great topic! Thanks to all the speakers and participants- blessings.
Beverly Parsons
03:07:32
Thanks!!
Bridgid Normand
03:07:39
Thanks!