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Upstream: Everything that should happen before we buy - Shared screen with speaker view
Carol Baroudi
18:33
WELCOME EVERYONE - PLEASE INTRODUCE YOURSELF HERE IN THE CHAT - I’m Carol - a BASG co-organizer
Rich Grousset, Re:Dish (he/him)
20:15
Hi from Brooklyn, NY! Rich Grousset from Re:Dish (www.redishco.com)
Claire Galkowski
20:29
Claire, South Shore Recycling Coop, member of Mass PSC, big EPR proponent
Casey Rector
20:32
Hi everyone! I'm Casey Rector - Development Coordinator at NPH USA, a youth-focused international non-profit (www.nphusa.org)
tilly pick
20:41
Hi all. I'm zooming in from North Carolina.
Carie Davis
20:48
Hi from Atlanta! carie@futureproof.vc
Trisha O'Hagan she/her
21:12
Hi I am a from Lincoln Mass and a member of Mothers Out Front—working on starting a Zero Waste programme in my town
helen snively
21:15
I'm in Cambridge, involved with Camb City Growers, curious about the topic
Judith Black
21:15
Judith Black 350MASS, Sustainable MHD, MCAN
Wanda Ratliff
21:26
Hi from Hopkinton, MA.
David Schreiber
21:28
Hi All. David Schreiber, Arlington, MA. IRA with Vanderbilt Securities, dba Greenvest.
John Fantasia
21:31
Hello John Fantasia Sales Executive at Re-Stream jfantasia@re-stream.com
Shruti Parikh
21:37
Hi I am Shruti Parikh, from Takeda, based out of Belmont
Eric
21:38
Hi Everyone. Beverly, MA. Lead Educator for Change is Simple - a non-profit environmental education company. New to BASG. Thanks and happy to be here.
Cory Silken
21:40
Cory Silken, Boston & Newport, Ambassador for 11th Hour Racing
Jelena Grbic
21:44
Hi! I'm Jelena Grbic, new to BASG, and an Environmental Scientist working at Tetra Tech. I'm always looking for ways to live more sustainably and my sister and I are currently starting to look into how Cambridgeport residents do this.
I Anderson
21:47
Hi, Keith Anderson from Somerville.
Rhett Anderson
21:49
Rhett from Portland OR, I'm new, PM at a sustainability tech company and SolarCity before that
Wanda Nevills
21:53
Hi there! Wanda from Westwood MA here. Work in market intel with forestry products @ Fastmarkets RISI + Random Lengths
Susanne Curry
21:55
Hi Susanne from Lowell area
Lisa Weil
22:02
Lisa Weil from Arlington. Solar Incentive admin
Freddie Kelley
22:02
Hi I am Freddie Kelley, MBA Candidate at Northeastern University! Looking forward to learning more about sustainability in this group. Here is my email if anyone wants to connect! Thank you! kelley.f@northeastern.edu
Stef Komorowski
22:03
Hello from JP! Admin at Brigham and Women's Hospital.
Tori Manogue
22:08
Tori from Boulder, CO (used to live in Somerville) an
Jillian James
22:09
Jillian James from Cambridge; EnROADS Climate Ambassador
Anne Sheridan
22:52
Hi Anne from SanDIego350.
Peter Carlson
23:00
Hi All - Peter Carlson, located in Boston. MBA candidate at Boston University and consultant in the consumer goods industry
David Way
23:01
Hello all, I’m David Way zooming in from Pawtucket RI, one of the investors at Greenvest. Greenvest is a group based in Arlington MA looking to work with investors who want to align their investments with they environmental and social goals (greenvest.eco).
David O'Leary
23:10
David O’Leary (he him his) Springfield, Massachusetts. Social Venture Circle and many other affiliations. Circular economy advocate!
Amy Perlmutter
23:12
Hi, Amy Perlmutter, independent sustainability consultant and BASG co-organizer based in MA
Timothy Havel
23:13
Someone should tell Smokey the Bear.
Samuel Boduch
23:20
Hello from Dover, NH!Sam Boduch with EarthShift Global
Evelyn Matsumoto
24:44
Evelyn Matsumoto of Wellesley, MA - reuse enthusiast, Master of Sustainability, and member of Sustainable Wellesley
Crysta Jentile
24:59
Hi all - I'm Crysta, based in NYC and a Marketing & Communications manager at Greenlots, an EV charging solutions company
Eric Grunebaum
25:56
Hello from Cambridge, Mass. I do private impact investment deal sourcing and clean energy project development primarily solar for nonprofits. eric.grunebaum@bequiasecurities.com
Ravish Majithia
26:24
Ravish Majithia here. Lead Magnomer - startup for recyclable packaging
Amanda Peters
27:50
Hello! Amanda Peters, career counselor (starting a new role at Harvard Extension School later this week)
Holly Fowler, BASG (she/her)
28:25
Welcome everyone! I’m so glad to see you all here. I’ve gotten a sneak peak at the slides and hope you’ll find the sharing as interesting as it promises to be!
Monica Nakielski
28:47
Hi all, Monica Nakielski, Anthesis consultant. Also, my new computer is preventing me from accessing my microphone...
Holly Fowler, BASG (she/her)
30:12
Hi Monica - Right now I have all mics off. We can change that when we get to Q&A. :)
tilly pick
30:16
I like that...."learn to zoom in (user) and out (systems)
Holly Fowler, BASG (she/her)
32:39
Question for later: How you design when you don’t know what the system or market is going to be for that item in the future?
Holly Fowler, BASG (she/her)
32:58
* How do you design when...
Amy Perlmutter
33:56
toxicity also should be a circular design concern— fits into several of those strategies.
Meera Singh
34:02
Could you please repeat the name of the Co when you talked about biomimicry? Tks!
Ed McGrath
34:30
As someone who deals with products at the end of usefulness, big challenge is knowing what components are and if there is haz material in the product
Samuel Boduch
34:59
Meera - I believe she referred to Interface Carpets
Meera Singh
35:12
Tks Samuel
Jelena Grbic
35:30
plastic bags aren't recyclable? we have a separate recycling bin for plastic bags... wondering where it goes then
Claire Galkowski
36:00
they are definitely recycled from many supermarkets, often into Trex lumber
Susanne Curry
36:06
What is biomimicry
Sarah OBrien
36:14
Very limited, Jelena- Trex is one outlet.
Monica Nakielski
36:25
Yes I did. First day with Anthesis was March 29.
Sarah OBrien
36:59
Susanne design that copies natural strategies which tend ot be circular and regenerative
Carie Davis
37:01
As far as plastic bags being recyclable…you may have facilities in your area but I think most of the time they get put in the general recycling stream and gum up the works
Amy Perlmutter
37:05
@Meera and @Susanne there’s a group called Biomimicry Institute that would be a helpful place to learn more. It’s about mimicking nature. https://biomimicry.org/
Sarah Simon
38:55
Does EPR relate to the European ROHAS system about no to low toxics and end of life planning?
helen snively
38:56
recycling plastic bags: If you bother to put them in the bin at the grocery store, or at the Cambridge DPW (among many other places?) then they do get re-used. Right? Someone correct me?
Terri Goldberg
38:57
Massachusetts is way behind other states in the Northeast U.S. in enacting EPR legislation. What can be done to get this kind of legislation moving in this State? How can Mass become a leader in this area rather than so far behind on this?
helen snively
39:24
Where plastic bags gum up the works is recycling plants.. if you put them in a recycling bin.. which too many people do :)
Holly Fowler, BASG (she/her)
39:36
Is EPR a case of existing in law, but without a system for accountability? If not, how does it play out? Anyone have an example?
Jelena Grbic
41:01
@Carie and @Claire and @Sarah thank you! I live on MIT campus, and there must be a private recycling stream (although I find A LOT of contamination in different bins)
Amanda (she/her) from PSI
41:07
Yes -- EPR is a case of existing law. The PaintCare program is a great example. Mass doesn't have a paint law yet. www.productstewardship.us is a great resource for EPR information
Amy Perlmutter
41:17
@holly EPR does have systems of accountability. Bottle bills are a type of EPR, there EPR agreements for paint and mattresses and carpet, too
Amy Perlmutter
42:25
British Columbia has an EPR law, but it hasn’t done anything to lead to more recycling or redesign. An example of a poorly written and executed EPR law.
Holly Fowler, BASG (she/her)
42:38
Those are all great incentive programs, but what happens if someone throws a Sealy mattress on the side of the road? How far does enforcement extend?
Amanda (she/her) from PSI
42:40
Yes, Mass has proposed EPR bills for mattresses, paint, and carpet.
Channing Page
43:07
Regarding Interface, over the past five years their stock price has declined 26% while the NASDAQ has increased 182%. I don’t know any of the reasons, but it seems likely that the business community would not find inspiration here to follow the Interface example. What do we need to understand about this story?
Amanda (she/her) from PSI
43:20
Well, under an EPR program @hollyfowler the producers would responsible for addressing dumping and littering.
Holly Fowler, BASG (she/her)
43:38
Btw, a favorite synergy for me is the mattress recycling program operated by UTEC in Lowell. www.utec-lowell.org
Amanda (she/her) from PSI
43:43
And since the disposal would be free to consumers, that in and of itself would reduce littering/dumping
Holly Fowler, BASG (she/her)
43:58
Youth development/work force
Amy Perlmutter
43:59
@holly. an EPR law wouldn’t cover someone who littered, local litter laws would (if one was ever enforced!!). EPR would cover the costs of a collection program.
Claire Galkowski
44:42
Here's a link to the bill pending in Mass. https://malegislature.gov/Bills/192/HD1553 there ae also 2 identical senate bills. heres the summary https://ssrcoop.info/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/HD1553-SD1123-Bill-Summary-final.pdf
Amanda (she/her) from PSI
44:48
Actually @Amy, there are provisions in models that Product Stewardship Institute is developing with Oregon that would make producers address dumping and littering.
Claire Galkowski
44:53
The packaging bill that is
Amanda (she/her) from PSI
45:09
At least for mattresses.
Nina Butler
46:04
Thank you, Arnold Sapenter, for your work
Amanda (she/her) from PSI
46:28
Yes, Thank you Arnold!
David Way
46:42
I love UTEC, I got married in their space!
Wanda Nevills
46:57
Thanks @ Claire for this bill link
Holly Fowler, BASG (she/her)
47:05
@David Awesome!
Amy Perlmutter
47:07
question for @Arnold (or other speakers): EPR laws, if not well written, can have the effect of taking materials away from small, local recyclers and sending them to a central place where they may or may not be recycled or refurbished. Do you have any thoughts about this and how we can have industry cover at least some of the costs of handling materials while supporting local economic development?
Ed McGrath
47:22
Do NOT put plastic bags or plastic film in your recycling bins!!!!
Eric Grunebaum
47:48
I may be helping UTEC do solar on their new building. A great organization!
Sarah Simon
48:00
and do the packaging at lowest cost?
Sarah Simon
48:43
what about cellophane? it is compostable
Amanda (she/her) from PSI
48:53
@Amy -- yes, PSI is working with our Members across the country and stakeholders globally on creating equitable EPR. We have an upcoming webinar April 27 that will address this. We are also working governance structure for EPR programs that would give small business a voice in program implementation.
Amanda (she/her) from PSI
49:18
There are other ways to address this issue of small businesses in the law, too. PSI's EPR policy model (our Elements document) addresses this for most products.
Holly Fowler, BASG (she/her)
49:23
@Amy @Amanda Thank you for those insights!
Amanda (she/her) from PSI
49:34
thank you @claire for sending the bill link!
Lina Azuero
50:06
I think the problem is when the recycling burden is placed on the final user, because there is no recycling infrastructure for specific materials, despite the material having the recycling symbol
Amanda (she/her) from PSI
51:06
@lina you have hit on the crux of the issue. That's why EPR puts it on the producer to design better and develop systems for recovery of their products. It's a system issue, not an individual choice issue.
Lina Azuero
51:29
#7 is other, which in many cases includes multiple materials that are very hard to recycle
Holly Fowler, BASG (she/her)
52:40
It seems so evident and yet I’ve never thought about packaging in these terms exactly - primary, secondary, and tertiary.
Amanda Peters
52:41
https://www.terracycle.com/en-US/ takes the random plastics (if you pay, and you can fit a lot), but I’m cynical and wondering how much is really taken
Amanda Peters
53:03
…I meant, how much is really able to be recycled
Holly Fowler, BASG (she/her)
53:05
Super well illustrated here
Holly Fowler, BASG (she/her)
53:49
We will make these slides available and also post the recording to the BASG website archive.
Lina Azuero
54:02
@Amanda, correct, but you need to ship it, and that increases the environmental footprint of that material in itself, maybe putting into question whether it is more sustainable or not.
Claire Galkowski
54:05
@ PSI Amanda, glad you are here you and PSI rock
Julia Rothfield
54:18
@Amanda I worked for TerraCycle and they do actually recycle everything. One of the best concepts I learned there is that everything is recyclable, but often products aren't recycled if the economics don't work out. By paying for the recycling service, you provide the economics.
Amanda Peters
54:43
@Julia thank you!
tilly pick
54:53
am going to be a cynic here, because I can since I am a big, passionate sustainability person -- how do products that are designed, made, distributed and even collected this way compete with much cheaper options that are flooding the market each and every day?
Holly Fowler, BASG (she/her)
55:40
Q to the crowd: What is an example of packaging you appreciate? It might be an improvement you’ve seen or just a smart design from the start.
Claire Galkowski
55:42
@till - eco-modulated fees, which are based on life cycle impact if done right
Doug Koplow
56:47
Is anybody tracking and comparing the large consumer product companies to quantify which are doing the best on packaging and which are doing the worst? Also differences in what the same companies do for the same products, but in different markets (e.g., the US vs. EU)?
Amanda (she/her) from PSI
57:08
@Claire, thank you! The feeling is mutual -- you the South Shore Recycling Cooperative and the MassPSC are doing great work on EPR. Happy to be working together!
Rich Grousset, Re:Dish (he/him)
57:13
@tilly I agree with Claire. The playing field has to be leveled so single-use products aren’t quite as cheap.
Peter Carlson
59:58
Q to the crowd: Do you think strict legislation is needed for manufacturers to use (more) recyclable materials? At a scalable level, a rule of thumb is that a change from current plastic packaging to recyclable is a ~15% upcharge. Consumer goods companies won't eat those costs so it will most often fall on the consumer - but they're not typically willing to pay for it
Amy Perlmutter
01:00:26
purchasing dollars important, but also good purchasing specifications.
Sarah Simon
01:00:28
we need to find innovative and less expensive plastic recycling processes and support them. Sort of like we incentivized solar panels and wind?
David Way
01:00:31
I think that is where legislation needs to come in and make it cheaper to be focused on PSR
Amy Perlmutter
01:00:36
SLPC = great organization!
Amy Perlmutter
01:02:07
@Peter, yes, minimum content legislation/specifications are key to driving more recycled content. We assume that secondary feedstock is cheaper, but when you take into account cleaning, upgrading, transportation, etc., it can be more expensive. Especially since externalities are not internalized for virgin products, and natural gas is so cheap to make plastics. So we need minimum content leg.
Amanda Peters
01:03:29
Q for later- when is the shipping worth it, in terms of environmental impact, like TerraCycle (thanks for bring up, Lina), or for Loop?
Eric Grunebaum
01:04:06
Patagonia seems to be able to send products in all paper packaging … most other products are mailed in ridiculous amounts of packaging. Patagonia packaging actually looks like it’s cheaper, but perhaps not?
tilly pick
01:04:17
powerful image
Rich Grousset, Re:Dish (he/him)
01:04:18
Is there enough quality plastic recovered for recycling to supply manufacturers with the content needed to meet minimum content standards?
Benjamin Kogan
01:05:07
Hi everyone, Ben Kogan here from Reusable Solutions. Boston native(Framingham actually) but I’m based in NYC and Vermont now.
Rich Grousset, Re:Dish (he/him)
01:05:17
Hi Ben!!!
Carie Davis
01:05:26
Not enough to meet their commitments which is why many corps are now behind bottle bills to guarantee a quality supply
Claire Galkowski
01:05:33
@ Peter and @ Amy, supply is bumping up against demand already for plastics, not sure about other materials. To meet demand for higher postconsumer content, we need to greatly increase recovery rates, which are in the 30% range for most consumer packaging. Paper is a bit higher, but theres rom for improvement. EPR would incentivize producers to improve convenience and clarity about what is recyclable, to boost recovery. Our Mass. Pkg EPR bill addresses that.
tilly pick
01:06:58
Who would have thunk it....I am going to love love love procurement, purchasing, and contracting people from now on. #moreplease
Amy Perlmutter
01:07:42
@claire, you are right. But I have been hearing that for 30 years. Buyers aren’t willing to pay what communities need, they want cheap materials.
Rich Grousset, Re:Dish (he/him)
01:07:44
@Claire Thanks!
Benjamin Kogan
01:07:48
Yea! Put the money down. It talks.
Amy Perlmutter
01:08:22
As @Nina Butler (who is in the audience) would say: we also need a carbon tax.
Benjamin Kogan
01:08:43
+1 for the carbon tax
tilly pick
01:08:57
+1 carbon tax
Rich Grousset, Re:Dish (he/him)
01:09:05
+1 carbon tax!
David Schreiber
01:09:25
and another for a carbon tax
Timothy Havel
01:09:41
https://www.commondreams.org/views/2021/04/06/any-bipartisan-approach-gop-carbon-tax-fools-errand
Wanda Ratliff
01:11:07
Purchasing power is critical for driving change… what can we as individuals do to effect change?
David O'Leary
01:12:07
This page has info about the recently introduced federal legislation which uses range of approaches to address these issues: https://www.breakfreefromplastic.org/
Benjamin Kogan
01:12:22
? For Holly. Have you ever heard of TRUE Zero Waste and do you have any thoughts about this? A certification would go along way and help inform consumer choice.
Doug Koplow
01:12:33
Firms like Walmart starting purchasing their own clean energy, accelerating growth in wind and solar power. If Walmart started specifying x% of recycled resin in their packaging of key, high volume consumer goods, could they drive innovation in that market as well?
Rich Grousset, Re:Dish (he/him)
01:12:42
@ Timothy Thanks for sharing. Interesting piece on carbon tax strategy.
Amanda (she/her) from PSI
01:12:54
Thanks, @ David O'Leary! This is a great bill developed with a great coalition of leaders. Happy to say that PSI had significant input into the EPR component of that bill.
Holly Fowler, BASG (she/her)
01:13:02
@Ben I have not heard of it. Is there a link you can drop in with more info for the group?
Rich Grousset, Re:Dish (he/him)
01:13:44
@Holly https://true.gbci.org
Holly Fowler, BASG (she/her)
01:13:45
@Doug It has definitely been a strategy in the past.
Carie Davis
01:13:46
Love that - will require change management for sure!
Terri Goldberg
01:13:51
Sarah - can you talk about connection between procurement with alternatives assessment and green chemistry? Also, the need to do a better job of understanding the life cycle carbon footprint of various products so that can be factored into procurement decisions.
Ravish Majithia
01:14:21
@Doug. Legislation in CA mandates 25% recycled content in PET packaging by 2025
Peter Carlson
01:15:27
@ Sarah - do you think it's common that procurement is able to look beyond higher costs of more recyclable products? I'd imagine unless one of the top manufacturer priorities or there's a nice budget for it, it's hard to switch from the lower cost options
David O'Leary
01:20:26
This online tool may be a useful for those working with procurement / purchasing to identify products that meet one or more of the many “green” standards: https://products.ecomedes.com/ It is largely focused on green building materials, but not exclusively. Many many thousands of products are listed. (Disclaimer: I am an investor in this company)
Amy Perlmutter
01:20:45
applause!
Sarah Simon
01:22:51
and there are now Environmental Product Declarations for building products, ISO 14025 and EN 15804
Benjamin Kogan
01:22:58
I’m sort of new to this part of the equation. Can you give an example of procurement?
Sarah OBrien
01:24:19
Sure - anything an organization buys
Sarah OBrien
01:24:48
procurement is actually the practices used to buy goods and services
Rich Grousset, Re:Dish (he/him)
01:25:51
I have to sign off. Thanks to all the presenters and host for such an informative meeting!
Ravish Majithia
01:26:58
A packaging design resource for brands/packaging manufacturers: APR (Association of Plastics Recyclers) Design Guide: https://plasticsrecycling.org/apr-design-guide. They do a good job with defining design parameters
Holly Fowler, BASG (she/her)
01:27:16
If you have a question, please raise your hand (under reactions option) and/or type it in the chat and we’ll channel it to the speakers.
Lina Azuero
01:27:47
I have to sign off too. Great panel and conversation, one that we can certainly always have more of… Thank you!
Claire Galkowski
01:28:40
@ Arnold, can you please share the link in the chat? I missed it on the slide
Sam Boduch
01:29:45
Claire: www.productstewardship.us
Holly Fowler, BASG (she/her)
01:31:01
Anyone is also able to weigh in here in the chat in reaction to the questions of others.
Holly Fowler, BASG (she/her)
01:31:36
Questions for Shruti next. I think we have one from Amanda Peters.
Nina Butler
01:32:20
I have to run to pick up my daughter but I’m really thankful for the presenters and the event organizers
Carol Baroudi
01:32:20
https://www.mass.gov/doc/the-massachusetts-toxics-use-reduction-act-tura-overview/download
Amanda (she/her) from PSI
01:33:34
Not all EPR programs are the same. We've learned a lot from EPR 1.0. There is a lot that can be done in the development of an EPR program to incentivize recycling over waste to energy and to ensure that local businesses can compete. BC is not the only program model.
Amanda Peters
01:34:09
I need to head off, but really appreciate this great panel!! Thank you
Amanda (she/her) from PSI
01:34:41
I encourage folks to check out the webinars on packaging EPR on PSI's website: https://www.productstewardship.us/page/Webinar-Recordings
Benjamin Kogan
01:35:16
I do a lot of work on the consumer to educate them on alternatives to single use and put prove demand for reusables. I put together fun events like this one in New England. I have a weekly instagram live event called Zero Waste Wednesday that interviews influential zero wasters and thought leaders. You can register here: https://www.eventbrite.com/e/zero-waste-wednesdaysnyc-zero-waste-workshop-and-clean-bushwick-initiative-tickets-149161095853
Marialyce Pedersen
01:36:19
"environmentally friendly" is not correct terminology for anyone in our field. The US Federal Trade Commission prohibits its use as a claim and by continuing to use it, it gives the impression that it's "okay". "Environmentally preferred" is the professional term (but also not a legit on-product claim). Thanks!
Ed McGrath
01:36:26
To quote a speaker from a reuse conference a few years ago, Stop buying crap.
Wanda Nevills
01:37:03
@Ed - Exactly so!
Holly Fowler, BASG (she/her)
01:37:04
Ed McGrath, COO = Chief One-liner Officer of BASG
Marialyce Pedersen
01:37:10
Blaming the consumer? Really? Ugh. We need high-level policy to guide correct actions of SUPPLIERS.
Claire Galkowski
01:37:11
Indeed Ed! There are very few if any "environmentally friendly" products, oxymoron. Only less harmful
Wanda Ratliff
01:38:01
Well said, Marialyce
Jelena Grbic
01:38:41
I would love to evaluate the whole chain... that's what I'm wondering every time I am in a store.
Benjamin Kogan
01:40:04
Great talk thanks for organizing!
Sam Boduch
01:40:14
My friend Garry Cooper started Rheaply.com, which gives organizations insight into the "stuff" they have so it can be reallocated as needed. Those focusing on purchasing should check them out.
Marialyce Pedersen
01:40:30
"friendliness" is a human quality. if you think your consumer products are getting "friendly," you may need a mental health professional.
Meera Singh
01:40:46
Love Sarah's positive attitude!
Claire Galkowski
01:40:56
haha, good observation Marialice!
Susanne Curry
01:40:59
Thank you SO MUCH
Lisa Weil
01:41:01
Thank you speakers and organizing. Fantastic!
Nancy Huntingford
01:41:12
Thanka everyone, great speakers and discussion!
Wanda Nevills
01:41:45
Thanks for a really great session. I look forward to hearing more from all of you.
Claire Galkowski
01:41:45
MassRecycle's upcoming conference will focus on EPR https://massrecycle.org/events/conference/
Meera Singh
01:41:53
THANK YOU FOR A FANTASTIC DISCUSSION!
Deborah Johnson
01:41:54
Thank you, great to be here and great event!
Ed McGrath
01:42:30
MassRecycle has its annual conference next week, April 15 & 16. MassRecycle.org
Sarah OBrien
01:42:35
Great to see everyone's active curiosity and dedication to sustainability!
Carie Davis
01:42:58
I second that, Sarah! Thanks for all of the great questions and discussion!
Terri Goldberg
01:43:01
Thank you!
Cory Silken
01:43:19
Thank you!
Jillian James
01:43:28
Thank you all!
Carol Baroudi
01:43:39
Awesome chat participation - thanks everyone
Sarah OBrien
01:43:45
Rheaply is great!
Amy Perlmutter
01:43:47
Thanks to all the speakers!
Jelena Grbic
01:43:57
thank you!