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Martin Sosin Address - Shared screen with speaker view
Judith Cohen
21:02
The Llibre Vermell is a 14th century manuscript from the Monastery of Montserrat, containing ten songs specifically about (Catholic) pilgrimage to the site. I have sung and taught it for about 45 years.
Judith Cohen
21:43
It is not Livre, it’s Llibre, Catalan. Vermell is red , because it was found bound in a red binding later than the manuscript.
Judith Cohen
22:32
There is NO documented Jewish music from medieval Iberia, regardless of De Falla’s unfounded assertion.
Judith Cohen
25:20
Convivencia is vastly exaggerated. For exasmple, in Alfonso X’s Cantigas, sure, there are Jewish and Muslim musicians, but the songs about them in bis colelction shiw thast the only “good” non-Catholics are converted and/or dead. (I’ve been working on medieval Iberian music for almost 50 years.) The instruments asre the choice of the French msicians, not necessarily what was played in medieval Catalonia, though yes, of course the opud entered Iberia early on, via Andalusia and the famous musician Ziryab.
Judith Cohen
26:00
oud
Judith Cohen
26:48
Thie first piece was the 3-part canon Laduemus Virginem (LEt us praise the Virgen). TRhis one is a Cantiga of Alfonso X.
Judith Cohen
26:52
Laudemus
Judith Cohen
29:54
Csantiga 166
Marcy Hundley
31:08
I have a copy of the book and CD of the Llibre Vermell given to me by my young cousin many years ago! So wonderful to learn the background. Thank you, Dr. Madriguera
Judith Cohen
31:26
Cantiga 166 “Como poden per sas culpas” is about how Mary healed a man whose limbs were crippled and who repented .
Diane Mock
33:07
Fascinating! Thanks Dr. Madriguera!
Judith Cohen
33:49
There was no Ladino tradition in Spain at that time - Ladino and the repertoire developed in the diaspora.
Shari Goldman Gottlieb
34:04
Was there a judeo-
Shari Goldman Gottlieb
34:24
Sorry, was there a musical ladino tradition in Spain at that time?
Judith Cohen
34:28
These Ladino songs are from much later, though some of the texts do go back to pre-expulsion times. Not this one.
Judith Cohen
34:37
And no music at ALL goes back to the Middle Ages.
yitzchaak kerem
35:52
Looks like colloquial Judeo-Spanish and not medieval Castillian Ladino.
Judith Cohen
35:57
No, there was no Ladino tradition then: it’s a diaspora tradition
Shari Goldman Gottlieb
36:35
By definition, ladino and judo-Spanish are language of exile/diaspora, no?
yitzchaak kerem
37:47
Musicians of Classical Spanish music make up myths of later Sephardic life.
Judith Cohen
37:47
laino as a vernacular languageand the Ladino/Judeo-Spanish song repertoire developed in the diaspora. There also was no language called Spanish - Castilian became the dominant language well after Alfonso X’s time. Catalan for the Llibre (not Livre) Vermell, and the troubadours (Catalan and Occitanian) and Galician-Portuguese for the west - which is what Alfonso X’s Cantigas de Santa Maria are written in. Jews spoke the language(s) of the regions they lived in.
Judith Cohen
38:23
The Waverley Consort did these recordings in a time when less was known and people were assuming that the songs were much older than they are.
Isabelle Sandoval
39:01
I appreciate your Sephardic musical expertise Judith!
yitzchaak kerem
39:56
Most colloquial Judeo_Spanish had much Turkish or Balkan languages. Haketia had a lot of Arabic and French. If the forum is academic, LAdino is a misnomer.
Judith Cohen
41:14
Yamma Ensemble. Cien drahmas - drahmas is Greek currency; it’s a modern Ladino song (early 20th century)
Geoff Corre
41:47
Probably from Salonica
Shari Goldman Gottlieb
42:01
Yes, yitzchaak kerem, good point. In academic terminology, “Ladino” is written, typically used for liturgical texts, and preserves the original Hebrew word order.
Judith Cohen
42:01
Yes, Geoff.
Judith Cohen
42:33
The confusion is that NOW, the National Authority for Ladino in Israel is using “Ladino” for all forms, including the old “calque” one.
Shari Goldman Gottlieb
43:15
Yes, agreed, Judith.
Judith Cohen
43:39
So the distinction Haim Vidal Sephiha was so careful to make between the literal translation from Hebrew and the spoken vernacular is no longer being used. The vernacular is called haketia in Morocco, and djzudezmo, dzidio, spaniol, and other names in the eastern mediterranean.
yitzchaak kerem
43:55
There were coplas in the 19th and 20th century, nut colloquial song is Judeo_Spanish. Speaker should see massive lliterature on the subject by people like Armistead, or Yaakov HAssan's widow (Sorry forgot her name for the moment).
Judith Cohen
44:09
Her name is Elena Romero
Shari Goldman Gottlieb
44:18
For general purposes, at least in my experience, the terms have become so interchangeable in common usage, that unless speaking in a really specialized forum, one can’t use them.
Judith Cohen
44:32
But that isn’t the question here: it’s the confusion of modern (19th and early 20th ) songs with a medieval repertoire which has been entirely lost
Shari Goldman Gottlieb
44:49
Agreed on both counts.
yitzchaak kerem
46:03
Elena, and our dear colleague Shoshana Wiech Shachak, wrote much on popular Judeo_spanish song in the 20th century. If speaker can read Hebrew, maybe he can read Avner Perez' material on Judeo_Spanish poetry and song.
Judith Cohen
46:07
I’m sorry to post so many disagreements, but it isn’t only I - luminaries such as Edwin Seroussi (Israel Prize for Ethnomusicology 2018) and Susana Weich-Shahak and others have been explaining this for decades.
Judith Cohen
47:21
Yitzkhak, Elena knows very little about music . (Yes, she’s done brilliant work on the coplas, and I consult it all the time. ) Ana Alcaide picked up Ladino songs late=ish in her career, and is not an expert.
Judith Cohen
47:55
I have worked directly with Crypto-Jews in Portugal for over 25 years anfd none of this music has anything whatsoever to do with them.
Debbie Wohl-Isard
49:35
From Philadelphia conference?
Debbie Wohl-Isard
49:58
Bendigamos!
Judith Cohen
50:01
For this song, bendigamos, see Edwin Seroussi’s definitive study https://www.jstor.org/stable/44713683
Cindy Seton-Rogers
50:24
The upside to an in-person conference is being able to have these discussions over a meal. These discussions don’t translate well to a chat like this, however. Let’s try to keep the chat more for questions, but I am happy to make any e-introductions for further discussion if anyone would like.
Judith Cohen
50:25
Debbie, I sang and gave the Martin Sosin lecture at the 2017 Philadelphia conference.
Debbie Wohl-Isard
51:27
Thankyou Cindy!
Corinne Brown
51:51
I would appreciate listening to Enric and saving these endless intrusive remarks for the question and answer period at the end. I did not realize this was Judith Cohen's presumed lecture.
Judith Cohen
51:59
This romance/ballad is known as La vuelta del marido. It’s the Moroccan version. (Neil is an old friend and colelague)
Shari Goldman Gottlieb
52:25
I don’t know if this helps: perhaps a reason for the elision between the medieval and modern is that Judea-Spanish does preserve some elements of medieval Spanish.
Debbie Wohl-Isard
52:41
Agreed Corinne.
Geoff Corre
54:34
There´s a beautiful version by Judy Frankel
Michael Linver
56:23
Hello, Stan Hordes! Good to see you! I am now in Virginia with our daughter, the cantor here.- Mike Linver
Donna Medina
01:13:11
Its good to see the musicians presenting this music.Renaissance -Medieval music and instruments are a treat to hear played well. I enjoyed this presentation.Thank you Dr. Madriguara.
Judith Roumani
01:13:42
This is fascinating! I am looking for a musicologist interested also in modern music to review a new piece with Sephardic motifs by the American-Israeli Sephardic composer Ronen Landa, for Sephardic Horizons. Please contact me if interested, sephar@sephardichorizons.org
Cindy Seton-Rogers
01:14:01
Thank you, Donna!
Debbie Wohl-Isard
01:14:59
Wow, I've never heard the Shofar played as a musical instrument outside of ritual services.
Patti Jo Streltzer
01:15:37
Thank you. I really enjoyed this class about music.
Kathleen Alcala
01:16:19
One thing to keep in mind is that a living music is constantly changing. Thanks to Prof. Madriguera for this glimpse into the Sephardic musical presence all over the world.
Debbie Wohl-Isard
01:17:03
Yes Kathleen!!! Wonderful overview of the landscape.
Debbie Wohl-Isard
01:18:29
As the professor describes it, the pulse of music.
Shari Goldman Gottlieb
01:18:54
Thanks for the colorful digest of music. I appreciate the academic counterpoint supplied earlier on in the chat to ground the offerings. I realize we’re a diverse group!
Shari Goldman Gottlieb
01:19:28
Clearly, it takes an e-village!
Marcy Hundley
01:22:12
Superb presentation, Dr. Madriguera! Merci muncho
Debbie Wohl-Isard
01:23:14
Thank you Dr. Madriguera.
Kathleen Alcala
01:24:17
Thank you.
Diane Mock
01:24:30
Can we audit your class