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Democratic Education 2.0: Sociocracy in Schools - Shared screen with speaker view
Cassidy Younghans
17:38
I’m interested in taking the September course through socioceaxy for all
Roy Karp
18:50
Currently reading Ted Rau’s book and using Sociocracy with CommonGood.earth
Cassidy Younghans
19:23
Can we get a copy of the ppt presentation please
Alicia Richard
19:44
I am specifically interested in dealing with people who “hijack” democratic decision-making processes through manipulative actions and behaviors, and speech, etc. …Just went through a huge upheaval where this happened, and have been through several others.
Will Gowen
20:08
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/1Fb_TH3cqcj4hzieNZQOZHfi6kA3wX7pNn0ksMOSMAIg/edit?usp=sharing
Cassidy Younghans
20:18
I’m sorry to hear that Alicia
Abe Gruswitz
22:38
hierarchy is only faster for those in power to get what they want. it is not faster for those at the bottom of the hierarchy
Cassidy Younghans
22:51
I have been witness to some of these and am experiencing power dynamic issues too, this is the hardest work
Abe Gruswitz
25:54
there was a U.S. charter school in the list of schools that use Sociocracy. I assume that not all of those schools give decision making power to students?
Glacier Lake School
28:56
At Glacier Lake School we use a direct democracy (majority rules) at School Meeting for most decisions, but we have been experimenting with shifting to consent decision making and sociocracy into some of the bigger decisions the school faces-like new staff hiring. I am hoping we will continue to incorporate it more and more! -Nora
Cassidy Younghans
30:20
What if the shy kids don’t want to take a turn
Cassidy Younghans
32:47
So glad y’all are offering this conversation
Penny Camps
32:56
Yes rounds takes time but shy ones eventually find their voices as safety and connection is built. It works beautifully !
Abe Gruswitz
33:17
it is really prevalent in Sociocracy circles to distance itself from Consensus by misrepresenting Consensus. Sharon Villines spoke of this in the early 2000's in AERO circles and her thoughts were just that it was a distancing from Quaker Consensus, despite it being a misunderstanding of Consensus. consensus decision-making is consent based decision making and Sociocracy is just a rebranding of what already exists in Consensus and indigenous governance
Abe Gruswitz
33:41
that is categorically wrong. that is not Consensus
Abe Gruswitz
34:31
this speaker doesn't understand what he's talking about in regards to Consensus
Cassidy Younghans
35:10
Abe what is your definition of consensus
Alicia Richard
35:12
Agreed, it took 10 years for a co-housing community I lived in to agree on putting in a speed bump!!!
Cassidy Younghans
36:23
How do you explain consent in this context to consent in a sexual context the US is talking about so much
Jason M
36:43
Dr. Kevin Currie-Knight was on the original part of Pathfinder and was on the ASDE board. He also is associated with the Cato Institute. This discussion of problems with Democracy sounds similar to held by some in libertarian circles. Is this just a different spin on libertarian ideology?
Abe Gruswitz
37:21
Consensus is not about agreement. it is about consent. common versions of the basis for consent are on what spirit is guiding us to decide, what is "for the good of the group", or what is according to the principles of the group. the indigenous Consensus of the Haudenosaunee Confederacy is a mix of these models
Glacier Lake School
37:44
Another school that I know that has also been using consent decision making, at least a couple of years ago when I was interning there, is Wicklow Sudbury School in Ireland! That is where I first began considering the benefits of sociocracy. I am so glad to hear your perspectives and experiences on this topic, Hope and Will!
Abe Gruswitz
38:01
consensus is not tyranny of the minority
Gareth Manning
39:06
WHO is doing this? Is there a sole discussion facilitator?
Cassidy Younghans
42:16
Huh?
Roy Karp
43:05
I have been experiencing this method with an organization called Common Good (alternative currency) and have found it really effective and engaging; I really look forward to the meetings!
Abe Gruswitz
43:23
every decision making model requires good facilitation
Bruno Gioia Sandler (he/his)
51:56
I'm wondering how much a single teacher with a single group could do using these ideas (without having the support of the whole school)? Maybe to take as many of these ideas into action for classroom decisions?
Lexi Zucker
55:21
I love the idea that you can object to something you consented to before. It teaches kids healthy sexual consent as well.
Gareth Manning
01:06:32
Do your schools collect wellness or any sort of social and emotional competency data?
Gareth Manning
01:07:47
Love that!
Roy Karp
01:08:43
love the running in the hallways example!
Roy Karp
01:10:08
@bruno I think it could work in a single classroom; eg - you could create sub-circles for projects
Bruno Gioia Sandler (he/his)
01:12:31
@Roy, im just thinking how big of a cognitive dissonance it could create in the young people if there are so different rules and ways of doing things between one teacher and one group and all the rest of the school. But maybe there are ways!
Roy Karp
01:14:06
I hear you. Ive faced this issue with RJ Circles and it can be tough when your an island and the wider school culture doesn’t reflect what your doing
Rita Bouchard
01:14:17
@Bruno. It's challenging when kids help set up systems and they fall apart when they move on.
Liza Loop
01:17:05
@Rita. Yes. It’s kind of like we have a need to develop herd immunity to dictatorship.
Bruno Gioia Sandler (he/his)
01:17:28
exactly...it's difficult to be in that island
Sifaan Zavahir
01:19:55
@bruno - in our Parenting for SDE session we want to explore how it is when the school environment is different from home (e.g. one uses Restorative Practices and other doesn’t)… not so much an island, but 2 different continents?
Alicia Richard
01:21:34
Kids are smart, the world is not all one way about anything, they can figure out how to be and interact in many different environments. I just feel like these are real-life problems, and kids can figure them out.
Gareth Manning
01:22:58
Really enjoyed this! THANKS!
Rita Bouchard
01:23:00
It can be difficult for young children to understand mixed messages of NVC vs. power over in the home.
Bruno Gioia Sandler (he/his)
01:23:12
@Alicia, that's something I've been wondering, I'm just not so sure how it will work in practice (and also how it would work for example with kids that are less flexible for any reason), it might not be fair to them to put them through that neither.
Bruno Gioia Sandler (he/his)
01:23:33
@Sifaan, interesting! I'll check my calendar!
Roy Karp
01:23:42
you guys knocked this one out of the park!! Really well done!
Hope Wilder
01:24:18
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YsbmeF6qMCyPxoFwfMDNjgspRZDQ_dfnmEVwmjd9lDM/edit?ts=60d249ef
Gareth Manning
01:24:22
Curious, how well do you think kids develop social and emotional skills through sociocratic processes?
Alicia Richard
01:24:44
@Bruno agreed, it’s complex. However, my kids went to a Sudbury school, but my home was not a democracy, lol, and now they are all figuring out college which is more “power over”, and they also had to figure out other people’s homes’ rules, etc.
Gareth Manning
01:25:12
Makes sense — could you please link the article somewhere somehow sometime?
Bruno Gioia Sandler (he/his)
01:25:13
any tip on how to start this conversation with colleagues/administrators/parents to bring these methods to conventional settings?
Hope Wilder
01:25:55
Yes I’ll put the article in the resources page
Gareth Manning
01:25:56
Mindful Schools offers a great NVC course called mindful communication
Hope Wilder
01:27:05
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1RDS7TWWXKVC6fGuePGl660Cl-L6c7IGM/view Lectica study
Bruno Gioia Sandler (he/his)
01:27:55
thanks Will
Jenny Markus
01:28:05
Thank you very much for this presentation!
Gareth Manning
01:28:24
Could you please add your google doc resource link here? Not loving the whova app
Hope Wilder
01:28:49
Google doc link https://docs.google.com/document/d/1YsbmeF6qMCyPxoFwfMDNjgspRZDQ_dfnmEVwmjd9lDM/edit?ts=60d249ef
Gareth Manning
01:29:15
thanks!
Liza Loop
01:29:58
Have you covered the idea of consenting with a heavy heart within consensus decision making?
Greg Keller
01:37:48
Compared to the Sudbury model of meetings, do you think this goes any faster for controversial decisions?
Roy Karp
01:40:08
thanks! this was great!
Will Gowen
01:40:11
https://www.sociocracyforall.org/the-day-i-consented-to-a-proposal-i-hated/
Gareth Manning
01:41:47
How cute is this baby? :)
Gareth Manning
01:42:12
THIS WAS GREAT THANK YOU!!!
Lexi Zucker
01:42:22
Listening to you all talking is the only thing keeping him calm right now :)
Lexi Zucker
01:42:27
Thank you!
Bruno Gioia Sandler (he/his)
01:43:00
it has the same effect on me Lexi!
Bruno Gioia Sandler (he/his)
01:43:57
it gives a feeling of calmness to hear I'm not the only one with these needs to see this happen in the schools
Marina Gadioli Lenzi Mari
01:44:13
This was great! Thank you!!!
Greg Keller
01:44:50
I’m thinking more about meeting avoidance. 15 minute meetings would be amazing
Hope Wilder
01:45:13
Yeah the 15 min meetings are great! A kid holds the timer too and they don’t let you go over one second :)
Hope Wilder
01:47:14
Let’s Decide Together!
Bruno Gioia Sandler (he/his)
01:47:23
that would be awesome!
Lexi Zucker
01:47:31
lexi@utahsde.org
Greg Keller
01:47:31
gregwkeller@gmail.com
Liza Loop
01:47:40
lizaloop@loopcenter.org
Bruno Gioia Sandler (he/his)
01:47:42
brunogisan@gmail.com
Bruno Gioia Sandler (he/his)
01:48:30
how can we get in touch with that group?
Sifaan Zavahir
01:48:37
sifaan@schools4pt0.lk
Hope Wilder
01:48:47
Write me at hope.wilder@sociocracyforall.org
Hope Wilder
01:48:58
To get in touch with school circles group
Lexi Zucker
01:50:37
I have to go, thank you so much!
Glacier Lake School
01:50:46
Thanks!
Sifaan Zavahir
01:50:54
Thank you