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AERO Conference - June 2022 - Shared screen with speaker view
Samantha Kifer
06:20:58
That's exactly why I want to work in education too!
Amanda MacKenzie (she/her)
06:27:47
That's FASCINATING!
Monica Kmetz Cochran
06:28:55
Some people/kids have poor interception and nervous system misfires :-(
Amanda MacKenzie (she/her)
06:35:01
YES!!! This.
Samantha Kifer
06:35:10
AMEN!!!
Michael Maser
06:42:44
Here's a teaser quote from Iain McGilchrist’s earlier book, “The Master and his Emissary” (2012): “the hemispheres (of the brain) need to co-operate, but I believe they are in fact involved in a sort of power struggle, 5 and that this explains many aspects of contemporary Western culture.”
Michael Maser
06:46:28
and here's a link to a (recent) documentary about Iain McGilchrist and his work: “The Divided Brain”: https://www.cbc.ca/documentarychannel/docs/the-divided-brain
Michael Maser
06:52:04
The lastest trend that seems to very popular in K-12 and higher ed. these dayzz is UDL or ‘Universal Design for Learning' which adopts some of the tenets of Neurobiological learning and ‘bolt' it schooling procedures, to use your terminology 🙂
Sabrina (HoustonEd.org)
07:00:26
Tremendous presentation. Thank you for the breadth you covered.
Janine Lyman
07:02:36
There is so much to unpack in this presentation!
Alison Snieckus, Liberated Learners
07:02:42
Totally agree about the community piece, about adult allies present with the kids.
Mila K
07:04:34
hannedejaegher.net
Roy Karp
07:06:23
Freedom not license: community members are responsible for following rules that they democratically help create, adopt, revise as needed. It’s hardly a situation where there are no rules.
Michael Maser
07:06:35
I agree with Amanda ... the conventional education system is many things, but more than anything, after working for 30+ years in alt-ed, I believe the system is inherently conservative, i.e. it seeks, above all, to conserve the power structure that actually sustains it as it is. That leaves very little wiggle room for innovation, despite the innovative society that largely envelops most people.
Bruno (he/his)
07:06:40
together with other people we are discussing about this exact issue at https://sites.google.com/view/surviving-teachers, in case this would be of any interest to anyone
Janine Lyman
07:07:15
Agree... I’m both "in the system” and “outside" and I find that during the moments that I’m "in", I surrender myself to only making small shifts
Janine Lyman
07:08:26
Thanks for sharing @Bruon
Janine Lyman
07:08:29
@Bruno
Roy Karp
07:09:50
“You never change things by fighting the existing reality. To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.” - Buckminster Fuller
Michael Maser
07:10:26
@Roy: here, here, Bucky!
Amanda MacKenzie (she/her)
07:10:43
Thanks Bruno. I'll check it out. Yes, Roy, absolutely!
Michael Maser
07:10:47
Oops: hear, hear!
Derry Hannam
07:10:48
I did it in one class in my first year of teaching in an English public school. Thought I would get fired. Didn’t. Got put in charge of 7 parallel classes. It worked. Wrote a book about it called “Another Way Is Possible:Becoming a Democratic Teacher In A State School.” It’s an e-book on Smashwords - only $2.49 this week for e-book. https://www.smashwords.com/books/view/1029100 - paperback on Amazon. derry.hannam245@gmail.com
Janine Lyman
07:11:03
That’s exactly what I was trying to say... yes! The small shifts in the classroom becomes those mometns that are proof of concept
Samantha Kifer
07:11:18
Wow Derry, I'm definitely picking up a copy of that book
Roy Karp
07:12:00
On the other hand, we don’t all live in geodesic domes! 😀
Samantha Kifer
07:12:48
Akilah Richards is doing a lot to connect POC unschooling families
Michael Maser
07:15:11
I acknowledge the value of trying to reform the system from within, but I know that even the most sparkling innovations can get kicked to the curb in the blink of an eye - with a change in government or administration or ... a pandemic (!), and suddenly your job is fulfill the terms of a new contract, with no discussion.
Alison Snieckus, Liberated Learners
07:16:10
If we are truly non-coercive, there's no making up what they missed. They get to direct their own learning.
Samantha Kifer
07:16:18
Right
Sylvie
07:16:44
Agreed, @Alison!
Samantha Kifer
07:16:47
It's the idea that someone other than the student is directing what they should learn
Michael Maser
07:17:35
I don't mean to sound discouraging but I’m extending my energies, I hope, into new approaches. I just don't have the patience to keep trying to engage with people who don't really want to consider alternative approaches to ... learning.
Alison Snieckus, Liberated Learners
07:17:39
@samantha, that's the crux of it. We need to let go of what we think kids should learn.
Sylvie
07:17:41
How is it liberatory if we are imposing things they need to learn / catch up on what they've missed?
Samantha Kifer
07:18:10
Right
Derry Hannam
07:19:23
I agree that something is ‘going on’ in our direction. Two small networks are developing in the English public school system - check out ‘XP Schools’ in Doncaster and Gateshead - and ‘School 21’ in Stratford, London..
Sylvie
07:21:15
Honestly, they do that on their own, Ulcca.
Carl Rust he/him
07:21:42
I am offering a pop up session on being a subversive sub as a way to infiltrate conventional schools at 5:30 today.
Sharyl Allen
07:22:07
I like two phrases related to the federal government’s Learning loss” - unfinished learning & accelerated learning both of which allude to the learner engagement in their learning and what they perceive they need. The bigger question IMHO is what are we willing to engage space by space?
Alison Snieckus, Liberated Learners
07:23:49
What sylvie said....we don't need to do anything special to get kids to think deeply.
Bruno (he/his)
07:25:19
I wonder if this what Jerry is saying is applicable to other countries as well?
Bruno (he/his)
07:25:44
about the pandemic giving people the idea that other options are possible
Roy Karp
07:28:15
The Supreme Court just ruled that states can’t deny funds to religious schools if they give vouchers to private schools. Maybe Jerry should start a religion!
Samantha Kifer
07:28:35
lol Roy
Amanda MacKenzie (she/her)
07:28:58
But if we get enough of these going outside the system, there will be precedent to help shift public opinion.
Samantha Kifer
07:29:17
I TOTALLY see the point of making sure there is equitable access to these alternatives
Alison Snieckus, Liberated Learners
07:29:40
What if we can't provide proof that sde works? Tests, grades, and other systems of assessment undermine internal motivation.
Samantha Kifer
07:30:10
Right, which I guess is her point about R&D, if we show more research, and can get policy makers/funders behind that maybe we could change it
Amanda MacKenzie (she/her)
07:30:27
I think we see it works when graduates live successful lives.
Alison Snieckus, Liberated Learners
07:30:39
How do we measure successful lives?
Sharyl Allen
07:30:45
Bisohp Carroll HS - Calgary, AB, Canada is one of my favorite SDE schools nearly 60 years in this space and always a center of hope.
Bruno (he/his)
07:31:09
how do we define if an educational approach "works"?
Sylvie
07:31:23
RIght, Alison. Proof comes in the form of young people living a satisfactory life as defined by themselves, in SDE.
Samantha Kifer
07:32:22
See how the current literature in education defines success, and then show how SDE leads to those outcomes
Amanda MacKenzie (she/her)
07:32:30
That's a good question Alison, but I think if they are thriving in some way, it allows others to take chances in their education.
Sharyl Allen
07:32:53
Tempe AZ is two different systems and elementary system and a HS district system… would be interesting if the two different superintendents are working together.
Michael Maser
07:32:55
@Sharyl @ Bruno ... I think the answer to both your questions is you shape the/a narrative to prove your points. Create your own terminology reflecting the principles you think are important. That's what we did in two alt schools I helped to co-found.
Alison Snieckus, Liberated Learners
07:33:20
Naomi Fisher in her new book, Changing Our Minds, suggests that it's only K-12 aged kids who have to prove that they are learning. Adults learn all the time, we answer only to ourselves.
Amanda MacKenzie (she/her)
07:33:42
Exactly.
aero 9
07:34:16
That's not entirely true
Samantha Kifer
07:34:30
Right, well this whole obsession with "proving" we are learning came from data showing that US is behind a lot of other developed nations in academic performance areas, we just sort of mistakenly diagnosed that as a school problem, rather than an income inequality problem for example
Sylvie
07:34:38
Requesting that children prove what they are learning to adults is such a disrespectful concept.
aero 9
07:34:40
Adults have to prove they know things but their performance, what they know how to do , etc.
Samantha Kifer
07:35:05
Think No Child LEft Behind... where this started to go REALLY WRONG
aero 9
07:35:13
Like you wouldn't hire someone who doesn’t know anything about electrivity to wire your house
Samantha Kifer
07:36:02
(At least in the US)
Amanda MacKenzie (she/her)
07:36:11
That's true Aero 9, but you might hire someone to wire your house that knows nothing about poetry or French or WWII.
Alison Snieckus, Liberated Learners
07:36:20
@aero 9 - agreed, we (adults) are free to put ourselves out there to be evaluated, or not. Children don't have that freedom today.
Janine Lyman
07:36:25
@Aero 9... I agree and what is a little dysfunctional about it, is that we believe adults a little more readily if they say they know, although we still require paper confirmation of knowledge largely.
Maria Geraki
07:37:37
what is the name of the private democratic school you’ve mentioned Derry?
Bruno (he/his)
07:37:39
@Alison, for some people, in order to have food in the plate and a roof, we need to go through that process of getting "evaluated"
Maria Geraki
07:37:47
the one that's free
Michael Maser
07:37:59
My instincts tell me ... go subversive! (again, those are my instincts and may not synch with yours).
Samantha Kifer
07:38:22
Yeah, how do you manage a free private school?
Bruno (he/his)
07:38:34
Responsible subversive! As Derry said once...;)
Sylvie
07:38:43
Nobody cares whether someone started reading at 6 or 15. It's dangerous to expect certain skills by a certain age, IMO
Derry Hannam
07:38:54
@Maria “The New School” in Croydon, South London
Monica Kmetz Cochran
07:38:58
Thank you for sharing that there are different skills required at different developmental ages; however kids who develop at different rates ..
Amanda MacKenzie (she/her)
07:38:58
Agreed Sylvie.
Monica Kmetz Cochran
07:39:13
And I’m different ways that fit them
Jerry Mintz
07:39:13
Wrong question: How do we know what they need to learn. Should be: How can we really listen to what students want to learn?
Maria Geraki
07:39:14
Thanks @Derry
Roy Karp
07:39:43
Love JeffCo Open School!
Ulcca Joshi Hansen
07:40:08
agree @sylvie re: reading. I am actually pushing back hard on the "everyone needs to know how to read” today with the tech and resources we do
Roy Karp
07:40:13
They are under assault right now from the Right.
Alison Snieckus, Liberated Learners
07:40:30
If you are interested in Liberated Learners, I'm running a session at 5:15 EDT. Here's the link: https://us06web.zoom.us/j/84689531493?pwd=SXdFK0drRGNObENMSHI1eFBUamFOZz09 , passcode: aero. If you are interested to explore creating a self-directed education center, please join us.
Roger Horton
07:40:34
Thank you very much !!
Monica Kmetz Cochran
07:40:38
More emphasis on learning how to learn than the specific content
Amanda MacKenzie (she/her)
07:40:39
Can we continue this conversation in Whova?
Sabrina (HoustonEd.org)
07:40:44
Thank you!
Samantha Kifer
07:40:48
Good idea Amanda
Ashley
07:40:57
Thank you!
laura watson
07:40:58
So great! Thanks Ulcca!
Samantha Kifer
07:41:00
I agree Monica about learning how to learn
Alison Snieckus, Liberated Learners
07:41:01
Thank you! Super important to explore these issues!
Sylvie
07:41:02
Thank you!
Monica Kmetz Cochran
07:41:05
Thanks! Great presentation!!
Nora Gibbons (she/her)
07:41:07
Thank you so much, Ulcca!