The danger of confederation is that it normalises, nay institutionalises, existing apartheid. It is yet another version of the discredited 2-state solution which has bought Israel time to continue the violent theft of Palestinian land & lives.A single, SECULAR state is the sole sustainable solution. Equal rights for all between the river (Jordan) and the (Mediterranean) sea.‘Convivencia Initiative’ launched in May by the Convivencia Alliance which is composed of Jewish, Muslim and Christian activists promoting a just peace in Israel/Palestine. Read about it here; https://jewishnetworkforpalestine.uk/styled-2/

Your constitution calls for a secular state, but both Hamas and Fatah want an Islamic state based on sharia law. How do you plan to convince them to accept a secular government?

Richard Barrett is obviously an anti-Semite because he is telling deliberate lies about the only Jewish state in the world. Israel is NOT an apartheid state.

these criticisms of the IPC idea are frankly misinformed. before dismissing out of hand, maybe read the constitution and participate in the simulation

this is simply a mechanism for diplomacy. a tool to talk

Anti-Zionism is NOT antisemitism!

I don’t think insulting him is wise.. He is against the injustice ….like many

Many Jewish individuals and Jewish organisations oppose violent racist Israeli Zionism.

According to the most widely accepted definition of antisemitism, the one put forth by the IHRA and accepted by more than thirty countries and hundreds of NGOs, antizionism IS antisemitism.

This is a time to clarify any issues

this is about fostering dialogue

IHRA is a fraudulent definition

Human rights for all. Call it what you want….

calling the other side names does nothing to bring about diplomacy and peace

Fraudulent definition??? What is that? And who determines it?

I vote for One Democratic State!

maybe the IPC can bring about one Democratic state but you live in the sky. we need to start with the common government to bring about a discussion

What powers will this "common government" have to enforce its laws? If it has no power to enforce its laws, it is not a government. It is only an NGO making suggestions.

Do you think our guest Richard is going off central time ?

Did you confirm?

Carl, please educate yourself on IPC idea before spreading falsehoods about it

iTS VERY BASIC, THE PALESTINIANS NEED TO HAVE CIVIL RIGHTS AND POLITICAL RIGHTS IN ORDER TO HAVE JUSTICE AND PEACE. AT THIS TIME THERE ARE NO CIVIL RIGHTS AND NO POLITICAL RIGHTS THIS IS THE WHOLE PROBLEM.

That is false. I did not spread any falsehood about IPC. I merely asked questions based on what Josef is saying. Josef Is speaking about a "common government" but that "common government" will have no enforcement power. Therefore, it is not a government.

why wasn't the guest speaker confirmed? I am confused? has anyone sent him a reminder?

Attempts were made to contact the guest speaker unfortunately there was no response from him

Carl, you are spreading falsehoods because you are making assumptions not based on the reality of the idea. their is a website, a YouTube channel and even a book that breaks down the whole idea and mechanism. your questions have already been answered. if you aren't sure, just keep quiet or ask questions in good faith. maybe start by going to the website and reading about it

Florence, which Palestinians are you talking about? The Palestinians who are citizens of Isrtael enjoy all of the political ana civil rights of other Israelis. The Palestinians in Gaza and the PA make their own laws. If THEY don't have civil rights, it is because their governments donot give them those rights.

is there no way to get a hold of the Irish guest?

in the past IPC was able to contact the speaker

Jesse, you are lying about me, and now you want to prohibit me from speaking and raising relevant questions.

I am not lying about you. your questions appear to be in bad faith and your basic understanding of this idea is rooted in nothing. unless you have read important information on website?

I am bummed. so the Irish parliment member bailed?

Carl is jumping ahead of the game. totally clueless. maybe wait til the end Carl. hope these questions are being asked in good faith

I am half Palestinian. Family in Ramallah….The occupation in itself is the issue here…

And how will the occupation be finished by this procedure, Natalie?

the IPC is another tool to help bring about the end to the conflict via occupation. status quo has FAILED to do that

That was my first question initially many years ago when I first met Joesph.. I am optimistic and also realistic

But I appreciate the effort

The problem is that in 1948 Israel was founded on violent racist theft. Anyone who has been flying a Ukrainian flag these past few months should have been flying a Palestinian flag over the past seven decades!

The sad truth.

So far, what you have presented is not a constitution. It is merely a statement of belief.

Carl, please get out of your comfort zone and do your own research. maybe check out the website for more details

How are we to guarantee the unbiased election of the judiciary? You must describe/justify the processes that will enable for those powers to be elected

Jesse, maybe you should just hold your tongue and stop telling me what to do.

Of course Carl is totally accurate, Jesse! Why are you trying to silence him?

josef actually wrote a book that breaks down the complete constitution. book still available on Amazon if you don't want to read the text for free on website

Carl can say whatever he wants but he seems misinformed and the bias is showing

Yes.

How are those representatives be elected?

online election like is done in Estonia and elsewhere

A constitution which is accepting the state of Israel as it is - a militarised, racist Apartheid state isa very interesting constitution… Jesse, do your own reading, please.

That is extremely impractical and biased @Jesse Bevan. Not all Palestinians have access to IT appliances or wi-fi.

how many current countries were founded by settler colonial state or oppression or other injustice? the reality on the ground is they all exist

Not all Palestinians have access to secure electricity!!!

To those who speak not in favor of this IPC.. What are your solutions…..please enlighten us

Is this the mentality that you are trying to impose a Constitution? It is the least satirical.

@ Natalie; ‘Convivencia Initiative’ launched in May by the Convivencia Alliance which is composed of Jewish, Muslim and Christian activists promoting a just peace in Israel/Palestine. Read about it here; https://jewishnetworkforpalestine.uk/styled-2/

@Carl Goldberg very logically put and said.

I for one am not surprised that you, Jesse, accept Israel as it is, while I, an Israeli citizen, reject it as an Apartheid state…

Where is the accessibility frameworks to safeguard equal participation to the democratic functions for the Palestinians?

You cannot mover forward without putting an acceptable framework in place.

thank you Charles!

Veto power to a racist state? You must be joking…

My family and roots are from Palestine. we have been there longer than the state of Israel… We lived in peace. I am not allowed to visit without being harassed and mocked.. and I am a US citizen born in Chicago… Its a very awful feeling

Battery low. Will need to charge Mac…be back

This Declaration of Peace flagrantly contradicts Hamas, and even Fatah.

To start thinking of a Confederation, we must first address the extreme issues of intolerance, taught in schools and amongst communities, that entangle the two ethnic/heritage communities into ongoing disputes and unbalanced actions.

I am raising my hand

Someone has an echo and needs to be muted

The obstacle is getting the power and control we need to implement our legislative..

Natalie, that is precisely my point. This Confederation will have no enforcement power. It cannot have its own police force because the governments of Israel, PA and Hamas will never permit it.

Yes Carl.. This was my initial response many years ago when the IPC was introduced

if IPC is created and 19 out of 20 ideas get vetoed, it's still progress because one new idea for peace passed

The current contradictions with our principles are subject to the Judicial process and implemented by the Confederation Police.

current status quo is 100% failure

Answer to the quesiton ;

The current contradictions with our principles are subject to the Judicial process and implemented by the Confederation Police.

Can be backed by a UN Peacekeeping force.

I believe that, idealistically, and after the severe and extreme inequalities seize to exist, then this Confederation draft has a good, progressive and equality-addressing context.

I am a registered nurse I own a successful nursing agency. Many of my clients are Jewish. My godfather was jewish They love me as I do to them, If only we can respect and show love in the region.. Equal rights…..

Carl I genuinely hope you long for a peace process to be re started but to simply claim Hamas and Israel will never allow it. that's dismissive and if everyone had that train of thought, human progress would never exist

That is true @Jesse Bevan

the pessimism and defeatism is understandable but does nothing to make a plan towards peace

At least the IPC will open a dialogue of peace and understanding…

yes thank you Natalie! so much negatively

Yes Jesse. As long as we remember human rights for ALL. Equal rights.. The foundation for PEACE

I believe "negativity" has its roots in the extremity and unfairness that has been exhibited the last few years, however, it could easily turn into "consideration" and "optimism" with the right diplomatic steps and support.

I agree

To assume Israeli govt & Palestinian Authority are equal partners is a pretence!

Thank you, @Jesse Bevan.

he means well but this IPC idea is viable. his is not

I think Nasser's point is that IPC cannot protect Israeli racist violence!

@Naseer, we have to think and discuss ways of "dismantling" the current regime, which you are not a follower of, just like the rest of us, in here.

Stop US funding

IPC is an unrealistic game...

Thank you

My input to @Josef Avesar question is that with external diplomatic pressure e.g. Amnesty Int'l or United Nations, etc., but cooperating with unbiased bodies and organisations of the Palestine-Israel territory.

It is not about dismantling Govts, but about upholding them to international agreements and international law and hold war criminals accountable in the ICJ

Agree @Naseer. Then, we can believe in the birth of a Confederation, where people will live under one diverse, and tolerant, mutually acceptable socio-political agenda.

Convivencia=Living Together. ‘Convivencia Initiative’ launched in May by the Convivencia Alliance which is composed of Jewish, Muslim and Christian activists promoting a just peace in Israel/Palestine. Read about it here; https://jewishnetworkforpalestine.uk/styled-2/

why can't he do this BDS plan AND support the IPC idea?

It happened in the U.K., U.S.A., S. Africa, and elsewhere, after years of colonisation, in the papers first, but societally later.

@Josef Avesar, please allow dialogue here.

why can't we do both?

BDS will work!!!

BDS and resistance is happening right NOW and will continue to happen regardless of a new mechanism for peaceful dialogue

BDS is a cult. All cults fail

ipc is far more viable than dismantling the Jewish state forcibly

We are working towards changing the policies and laws that allow the current Israeli government to govern through injustice and unfairness.

BDS is a peaceful way of pressuring Israel to stop stealing Palestinian land & lives. In fact, Israel has also stolen Jewish identity!!!

It is possible to change the laws.

Most governments around the world are very unfair. Idealism will get you nowhere. Quit trying to create another Canada in the Middle East

Israel is more powerful than ever! we need the IPC now, not pie in sky ideas that all that will happen is more status quo

I agree @Josef Avesar, that you are saying the logical thing, short-term.

The strength of Palestinians are their international rights and to surrender these rights for any kind of confederation that does not give them equal rights is worse than continued apartheid

Israel is not the only colonial settlers state. the idealism argument is only continuing more death and destruction

Agreed Naseer!!!

@Naseer, the Confederation guidelines refer to all the things that need to change, and offer rules to adopt and make the big changes that need to be materialised.

From all texts that I have read and understood, so far, and after clarifications provided by the moderator of this meeting.

The people In Palestine who have suffered and lived in the occupation see the IPC as a “NO POWER “ entity against the IDF. They just want to live life and not get killed.. They are surviving…

Is for the dialogue….

@Natalie Awad, and that is the very essence of the flagrant infringement of the Palestinian people's Human Rights. And this is an issue being dealt with, right now, outside of the scope of this meeting, although it is priority Nr. One.

Thank you Naseer.. This is the foundation of peace “equality”

@Josef Avesar, I have a very vital and to-the-point question, that I would like to ask you. I shall wait for my turn, of course.

Don’t listen to this crazy stuff Ori

Can we please keep a mutually respectable environment, in this simulation, and not speak without "raising a hand!?

Thank you to all!!

nothing in the IPC is preclusive of any other modality of engagement or pressure from without.

@Haim Brewsheeth-Zabner and @Ori Bennet, please, use the participation request tools, and do not monopolise this meeting, on the detriment of the other participants.

To assume Israeli govt & Palestinian Authority are equal partners is a pretence!

It is not about dismantling. It is about getting the existing rulers to accept international right and equality and security.

Thanks Naseer

THE IPC should use the energy to Stop US funding.. as we do with the states with grants etc….

In order to demand for equality

Goodbye everyone…..Until next time. What happened to Richard Boyd?

Israel v Palestine is not a conflict is violent racist oppression and the world must make a stand to oppose rather than provide diplomatic, financial & military support

@Libby Traubman your example is very enlightening and hopeful, also acknowledging the amount of time it took for the black S. Africans to recollect their rights and suppress the apartheid.

Education is the key, for both children and adults.

Step 1- Stop killing and militarism. Step 2- understand each other as humans

And I apply this all sides

In Israel there have been hundreds of groups and communities that have bridged the gap between Paleatinians and Israeli Jews for 70 years and more

Yes, @Naseer, these are the first steps, in order to move forward to the more futuristic, idealistic situations that we are discussing right now.

yes, but a small number compared to the need. If many work for the good of the entire region, many would benefit and this is built on trust and relationships

@Libby- without the cessation of the military and apartheid, any peace efforts will collapse because of the killing and denial of rights, and etc

teenqagers did not create apartheid

Israel's policy is determined by +60 years old persons

If we are talking about the Palestinians in Gaza and Area A, they make their own laws, establish their own cultural and judicial and media institutions. They have autonomous self-government.

@Carl- They do not control their borders, air space, natural resourses and movement within and without the country. Foreigners are not even allowed to enter unless they enter Israel first. So It is not really a govement like other countries.

Plus, they can not give citizenship to anyone they want, like Palestinians in Lebanon

Israel asserts its power in any part of the land between the river & the sea wherever & whenever it wants and the PA is POWERLESS!

try to get a building permit in those areas or avail yourself of meaningful representation in a administrative detention vis a vis Israeli military, see how exercisable your "rights" are

@Naseer You are right that they are not fully sovereign governments like other countries. That is because their stated goal for the past 73 years, has been to eradicate Israel and establish an Ara/Islamic state from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea. This has always been their professed goal, and their populations agree with this goal.

@Carl- this is not true

@Dave It is simply false to say that the PA is powerless. They determine the entire cultural and political life of the area they control.

2Naseer -- Yes it is. Show me any official Palestine maps which show Israel in any borders.

Show me an official map of Israel

try to get a building permit in those areas or avail yourself of meaningful representation in a administrative detention vis a vis Israeli military, see how exercisable your "rights" are

Thanks for lots of interesting ideas. Must go as I am participating in a World Beyond War conference this weekend. Too bad we weren't all there!!

good luck Libby!

To my mind, the IPC will embarrass the three governments, increasingly so as it passes the sort of legislation with which we’ve been dealing. That embarassment will be seen daily by the people, particularly those who voted for the IPC. Over time, these “examples” will eat away at the three governments and they will be compelled to change or fail completely. That's the beauty of the iPC concept. Got to run. Enjoyed the discussion.

again, nothing of the IPC is preclusive of other modailities of engagement. It should be coupled with pressure from without (the region), like BDS.

Estonia is an irrelevant example. Estonia has an overwhelming homogeneous population sharing a common language and a common history.

To all of you who doubt what a number of us argue for, pls have a look at the website of Jewish Network for Plastine: https://jewishnetworkforpalestine.uk

Thanks Haim!