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CT Land Use System Forum - Shared screen with speaker view
Lynette Tolar
37:58
I can't submit the poll questions.
Sara Bronin
44:41
Thanks to everyone for participating in this conversation. We would love to hear more from you and have you engage - and shape - what we’re doing. More information and a sign-up for our mailing list is at www.desegregatect.org
Sara Bronin
57:04
I’m not so sure! The historic preservationist in me thinks it may not be compatible. :) But yes, architectural character can be articulated through the law. We have a form-based code in Hartford that works very well. :)
Bob Friedmann
57:05
Local control in areas that are tourist dependent and have resort industry businesses must be aware of Air BnB rentals in ADUs. Will Duration of ‘Rental be allocated to localities? If owner occupied requirement is undone, it becomes even more important. See Sedona, AZ for an extreme case where State regs overrode local controls. Short term rentals do not solve housing problems and desegregation.
Sara Bronin
58:22
@Bob Friedman - This is a great point. The issue of short-term rentals seems to arise in the towns near NYC and on the shoreline. Short-term rentals (and prohibitions thereon) would seem to be something that should be decided at the local level. What we’ve been thinking about is really the ability to create the unit itself; we’ve found that they are only allowed in about half the towns.
Jana Roberson
59:17
Duplex is not a building type. It is a type of dwelling unit. The architectural style can be anything.
Sara Bronin
01:00:00
The other issue on ADUs that we have heard about is that towns are reluctant to allow them because *they contribute to the denominator of units that are counted for 8-30g.* In other words, if you produce an ADU, it adds a unit to your overall housing supply. If the ADU isn’t deed-restricted affordable, it doesn’t “count” for 8-30g. This seems to be something that can be addressed by a tweak to 8-30g. By their size and nature, an ADU should probably be considered to be either exempt from the 8-30g totals or considered to be de facto affordable. But again, that’s something we’ve been thinking about including. Thoughts welcome.
Hoween Flexer
01:02:14
Please note that all questions for the Q&A at the end should all be directed to Alexis. Thank you!
Bob Friedmann
01:03:08
I’ve run the numbers for my town and even with 30% of any new construction of dwellings required to be 8-30g affordable deed-restricted, we will never get from ~2% to 10%. We will adapt to new housing density without focus on that as a goal.
Sara Bronin
01:07:46
@Bob Friedmann - I think many towns are in the same situation - including towns in NECCOG. In other words, they don’t have the physical capacity (or frankly, market demand at this point) to achieve 10% affordable housing under 8-30g. Our question is, can we solve multiple issues at once? I know this is not necessarily a popular view among 8-30g proponents, but perhaps, perhaps we should consider giving towns a specific menu of regulatory reforms that they can do to show they are advancing fair housing, and use that as an alternative to (or better articulation of) 8-30g. Our effort is open to creative ideas that can help us get our housing diversity/housing supply goals.
Craig Minor
01:10:28
Joe: I would love to know who those legislators were.
Bob Friedmann
01:11:45
Sara - the Old Saybrook Zoning Commission is working on that. We wondered shy property owners along Main St. have not availed themselves of regs allowing dwelling units above commercial. 2 units wasn’t enough, so we are working on how to do 3 with at least on deed-restricted. Time will tell.
Sara Bronin
01:12:25
@BobFreidmann - that’s great, thank you for the note. We’ve heard from some folks in Old Saybrook and I know you would have some allies in that conversation.
Sara Bronin
01:14:56
@JoeDelong is right that there is a lot of misinformation. (One of the op/eds he mentions is full of factual errors.) We’re working on an FAQs page to try to correct these.
Stephen Hudecek
01:15:03
fact or opinion?
Jim Perras
01:15:13
I believe there are 25 towns or so in our state currently that forbid multi-family housing by zoning regulation.
Bob Friedmann
01:17:26
Stephen Hudecek - Does it matter if it is fact or opinion? Education may never change a fixed opinion, but it can clear up what is factual.
Sara Bronin
01:17:29
As an aside, I also want to clarify that DesegregateCT is NOT involved in the federal lawsuit or the threatened state lawsuit in Woodbridge. (That’s another organization that has had the lawsuits in the works for a while.) But as we said in a recent newsletter, the threat of these lawsuits really means that it’s possible that COURTS will decide what towns must do. What we are trying to do is to convene towns and the State to work together to find win-win solutions (which do exist). LEGISLATIVE solutions can be tailored to towns’ needs. But when the courts get involved (e.g., in New Jersey), things get really messy.
Jim Perras
01:20:45
Great job Joe!
Sara Bronin
01:21:00
Reinforcing @Dwight Merriam’s point, Sean Ghio wrote an op/ed this week about the changing demographics for the current generation: https://ctmirror.org/category/ct-viewpoints/this-is-not-my-dads-deal/
Bob Friedmann
01:24:48
Is there a desired shape of curve for housing types? Windham County has a curve from high to low (single fam to multi-fam. Should there be a bump in the middle housing segment?
Sara Bronin
01:28:11
Sean’s organization, Partnership for Strong Communities, released ALL towns’ data today, for anyone interested in exploring: https://housingprofiles.pschousing.org
Sara Bronin
01:28:56
For anyone on Twitter, by the way, you can follow DesegregateCT at @desegregatect (and I’m at @sarabronin), if you want to keep connected * keep up with the latest.
Jim Perras
01:32:17
Spoke to a multi-fam builder in Hamden that has a very large project of over 300 units and there were only 6 school age students currently residing there.
Peter DeMallie
01:32:36
Alexis - My observation, as a former municipal and regional planner, and a current private sector planner designing residential and mixed use communities, is that many towns still have PZC commissioners who want to maintain the status quo of large SF homes on large lots. And they also want any multi-family units to have few units with more than one bedroom, in order to limit the number of children, to keep school costs low. They often oppose MF housing, and make the process more difficult. This is not helpful. An underlying current is also that they perceive MF units as occupied by people who don't look like them, and they are uncomfortable with that. We need legislation that allows higher density housing, with a variety of sizes and bedroom mixes, and ADUs, especially within pedestrian distance of transit, parks and downtowns with amenities.
Sara Bronin
01:33:27
@Peter Maille, thanks! Would love your insights through our group as we refine our proposals…
Sara Bronin
01:34:25
On the point of children in CT housing, I think it’s important to point out that CT has a significantly aging population. Check this out here, and scroll through the images: http://aging.ctdata.org
Sara Bronin
01:34:56
On the point about who shows up at hearings, I would STRONGLY encourage you to watch Katherine Einstein’s presentation last week, about her book “Neighborhood Defenders,” which is online at www.desegregatect.org/events.
Bob Friedmann
01:36:45
Declining population of school age children is common in southern CT. There has been a push for regionalization of schools to get enhanced efficiencies compared to small districts. More kids may preserve the status quo for schools.
Bob Friedmann
01:39:44
Infrastructure includes sewage treatment plants. Soils-based density (health department, not zoning) prevails. Raising the gal/day number to keep DEEP at bay will not make a big difference.
John Filchak
01:41:39
Connecticut has not had a new regional school district since 1987
Delia Fey
01:41:58
I think it is important to keep in mind that family size is smaller than it has been in the past so all types of housing are housing fewer people and therefore fewer children. This trend means the people require more units but do not all want, need or can afford the same large spacious McMansion. Also, many people are developing an interest in minimalism - not buying as much stuff as they want to enjoy experiences instead of paying for stuff and the space to store it and then pay taxes on this space. We will have an ever increasing number of too large homes -- why not use that existing space so we don't have to eat up more raw land for every new housing unit. Of course there is a need for new units (for greater variety and in different locations) but allowing the configuration of the exisitng dwellings to be adjusted to meet the needs of the market can help our towns, help our local businesses have both employees and customers. Think of how many housing types this audience has lived in in their lives
Delia Fey
01:42:14
this goes to show that people just like us need these housing types.
Jim Perras
01:42:38
Also we are seeing inclusionary zoning measures baked into POCDs without builder incentives, essentially making cost prohibitive to build multi-fam in those towns.
Peter DeMallie
01:47:00
Eric Santini and his firm have created excellent MF communities. I have had family members who resided in them, and loved the environment. I was sorry to learn that his recent MF proposal in Vernon was denied in the face of neighborhood (NIMBY) opposition. We need to address this.
Bob Friedmann
01:47:33
My town has high land cost, yet has approved five 8-30g developments without any $ subsidies. Why should town $ be required to build what is needed?
Sara Bronin
01:49:13
@DeliaFey - Yes, agreed. Our hope is that we will be able to achieve both - first, reconfiguration of some existing units (including the most obsolete ones), and second, enable the creation of the kind of housing we know the market wants. One big issue, which @EricSantini talks about, is that the commissions don’t understand necessarily the extent of their decisions. They may be well-meaning but they are untrained and don’t realize how much their decisions are impacting the state. They don’t have an incentive to make their neighbors mad to change their codes. That’s why we have to have a broader approach based on data and information. It’s imperative for all of us to try to make a good faith effort to try to work on this.
Peter DeMallie
01:49:47
Unless a MF zone change application is made under 8-30g, it is nearly impossible to overturn a denial in the courts. Very risky.
Bob Friedmann
01:52:47
IF you mean a regulation text change, I agree. If the regs allow MF with local design as-of-right, then there should not even be a denial.
Craig Minor
01:55:48
Inclusionary zoning is a tool that can be misused, but every 10 market-rate units that get built in my town generate the need (under 8-30g) for 1 additional affordable unit. Why not pass some of this burden onto the housing developer?
Bob Friedmann
01:59:27
I read an early draft of Sen Anwar’s proposed legislation. One item about sign illumination has no business in legislation regarding any kind of housing whatsoever.
Amanda Kennedy
02:02:58
For those interested in inclusionary zoning, take a look at how Stamford does it. They periodically calibrate their requirements to the market to make sure that the requirements are not overburdening development such that development slows, but also to make sure that affordable housing production is as high as possible. They also have a fee-in-lieu option which subsidizes other affordable housing development. Some places would not have strong enough markets to support affordable housing production through inclusionary zoning (i.e. subsidies would be needed).
John Guszkowski
02:03:05
https://ct.planning.org/knowledge-center/ct-planning-magazine/
Jim Perras
02:04:30
To John's points, it's worth noting that HBRA is currently in discussion with DPH with regard to their technical standards for septic systems to encourage greater flexibility and better use of land for multi-fam developers. Talks surround GPD/per bedroom, set back requirements, reducing serve areas, etc.
Joseph DeLong
02:06:56
I feel terrible that I must jump off before the Q&A. Today is my wife's and my anniversary and I've been at the office since 8:30am. So I need to get home if I want to make it to next years anniversary. If anyone would like to reach me please feel free to email me at jdelong@ccm-ct.org. Thank you!
Sean Ghio
02:07:18
Happy Anniversary!
Maryam Elahi
02:10:17
Thank you for an excellent and informative panel discussion. I hope you make link available to us.
Sara Bronin
02:10:42
Can you unmute me?
John Filchak
02:13:09
CTN will be re-broadcasting this forum in the near future
kathleen krider
02:15:27
Neighborhood Assistance Corporation of America
Sean Ghio
02:15:28
LISC Connecticut runs a program called Housing Connections that specifically helps rural and suburban towns develop affordable housing. Nearly all of these developments are small in scale. You can see examples at their website: housingconnections.org
Amanda Kennedy
02:19:06
https://www.nwcthousing.org/ is a website with several examples of affordable housing built in small towns in NW CT. The good work of many small housing groups operating in that part of the state.
Jana Roberson
02:19:39
slight correction to Sean's post: https://housingconnectionsct.org/
Sean Ghio
02:19:48
thank you
Bob Friedmann
02:20:11
In Old Saybrook a 186 unit development (under the ‘former’ IHZ regs) with 38 deed-restricted rentals is now in the top five taxpayers in town.
Sara Bronin
02:21:39
Thanks everyone! Again we are online at www.desegregatect.org. Please sign up and keep in touch. :)
Quinn Molloy
02:21:44
Thanks everyone! Great discussion.
Jim Perras
02:21:45
thank you to the panelist. great discussion!
Peter DeMallie
02:21:51
Excellent forum. Thank you.
Rosalie Ray
02:22:04
Thanks for this informative conversation and chat!
Craig Minor
02:22:08
Thanks everyone!