It takes two to make peace but only one to prevent peace. Until today, the "Palestinians" have always proclaimed their goal as eliminating Israel and establishing an Arab/Islamic state from the River to the Sea. Until the "Palestinians" give up that goal and decide to live alongside a Jewish state, there can be no peace.

just so everyone is clear, my haha emoji had to do with a comment made BEFORE the simulation started and before recording began

Do Israelis include Arab Israelis?

Yes, of course, Israelis include Arab Israellis. All Israeli citizens.

What would be the role and influence, if any, of the Islamic religion on the input and decisions of this proposed 3rd party/3rd state/3rd government?

But Jordan was Palestine before

Sorry but this doesn't make sense, take an Israeli citizen living in Um-el-phahem who defines himself as a Palestinian, who does he belong to?

so the vote is for people in a particular region regardless of citizenship to find a third way towards peacefully living with your neighbor

Any discussion of the "Israeli-Palestinian" conflict absolutely must take into account the role of the religion of Islam in that conflict. The Hamas Charter makes it very explicit that the conflict is an Islamic war on the Jews. Even The PLO/Fatah, nationalist though it is, is also Islamic. Also, rfemember that Israel's deadliest enemy is The ISLAMIC Republic of Iran which is not Arab, let alone, "Palestinian".

I would disagree with Sarah that Jordan was Palestine before. There was no Palestine. There was only the British Mandate for Palestine.

HAMMAS It’s a terror organization , does usa will seat with el qaeda ?

Mandela and the ANC were also regarded as terrorist up until 2008

The Israeli “Irgun” was regarded as a terrorist organization

In response to Jesse, there can be no peaceful solution until the Palestinian-Arab population gives up the narrative of the Nakba and until it renounces the Jew-hating doctrines found in the Koran.

Wait do you deny the Nakba? Most non brain washed Israeli acknowledge it

The Nakba is a false narrative. It prevents Palestinian Arabs from ever agreeing to live in peace alongside (or inside) a sovereign Jewish Israel.

Hamas IS NOT a terror org. It is only labeled as such by the West. Many of your prime ministers were considered terrorists and were wanted. Also bear in mind that Israel heavily funded Hamas, openly, to undermine Arafat. An experiment gone bad, perhaps? But I thought this discussion is about Peace simulation and not accusations

if the Nakba is a false narrative you should tell that to the Israeli historians that lecture about it and the Israeli MKs who threaten the Palestinians with a second Nakba

The Nakba is the Justice that was Doles out to the Palestinian People for their baseless discriminationitory Hatred which the Arabs are responsible for

Was Israeli support for Hamas an experiment gone bad? Not necessarily. It was designed to divide the Palestinian Arabs, and it has accomplished that. Hamas is a counterweight to Fatah, and Fatah is every bit as terrorist and Jew-hating as Hamas.

does that mean that Bibi Netanyahu shakes hands with terrorists? don't know doesn't sound like him

Nakba is Justice? gosh man you are disgustingly evil

So you either deny the Nakba or justify it, you can't have both

Even Rabin shook hands with the terrorist Arafat. For tactical diplomatic reasons, it is sometimes necessary.

aha. and was Mandela a terrorist then?

how about all the members of the Israeli Irgun?

To Zohar: There was no "Nakba". That is an Arab Palestinian lie. There was a war between the Arabs and the Jews, and the Arabs lost.

Carl, your version of history is the one my government pushed on others. sad you can't see thru it.

I used to recite this BS myself before I grew up. hope you can do the same one day

What about Tunisia and Turkey professor?

Total nonsense by Kedar. Simply racist.

Iaraeli historians? Yes, the ones I'm most familiar with are Ilan Pappé and Avi Schlaim - jewish Israeli historians who work in the UK and are much respected by their colleagues the world over. Serious academics who have spent decades studying (and re-writing) the history of their native land.Try reading their work.Thank you.

Mordechai is an Islam expert now?

??

what about Iraq before 1990 or Iran before 1978?

Iran before 1953..

What about Egypt during Nasser's rule?

Pardon me, the fact si that......Many Palestinians are Christians

UN has issues but isn't that worldwide org "secular?"

Mr. Kedar....what about the many Palestinians who are Christians ?

We are not talking about a Jewish state. We are talking about a new state.

Cannot believe what I am hearing

Syria?

These are false arguments generalizing an argulably false statement about a religion with all of the Palestinian people in Israel and Palestine. A ridiculous argument.

To Zohar: It is not my version of history. It is history. The Arab war against the Jews was started by the Arabs with the goal of annihilating the Jews. The Arabs lost. The Arabs must accept the results of losing their war of aggression.

right. Carl. please consider reading Benny Morris, Shlaim, Pappe and any other jewish historians cause you clearly have a very silly understanding of history

Yes Kedar, we all want to survive and make compromises all along!

the point of the IPC is a reaction to failures of one and two state solutions

should the jews accept the result of the second world war? should we not be compensated by the European countries that expelled us? we even get citizenship from Spain some 500 years agfter

Dr. Kedar is absolutely correct about the role of the religion of Islam in the conflict. He is a recognized expert.

Racist Nonsense

this is like African Union or UN. can be "secular."

To Shlomo, what you write is absurd. This is not a matter of race; it is a matter of religion and the religious doctrines which motivate the behavior of its adherents.

Same thing!

Think about the Jews in the diaspora

I want to thank Josef for FINALLY inviting an expert who is pro-Israel!

And the antisemitism against the relgion

To Shlomo: It is logically absurd to equate race with religion.

So how do you explain antisemitis?

antisemitism

Hate of Jews who hold the Jewish religion - isn't it?

it's another line of communication to bring about peace

To Shlomo: ISLAMIC antisemitism is explained by the Koran and Muhammad's Sunnah.

Europe is a confederation of states. IPC needs a Palestinian state already existing. One can't have a confederation of a State and a non-state...

You know nothing about the Quran

ISLAMIC antisemitism is based on religion, not on race like Nazi antisemitism was.

I meant to Carl

To Shlomo: You have obviously not read the Koran. I have.

Yes Carl you sound super knowledgeable

No Shlomo....1 Example : many many several generation long converted Jews were persecuted and killed by the Nazis

Hungary accepts refugees by the way

if 19 out of 20 proposed legislations failed but one succeeded in first year, IPC would be a success. status quo one/two state solutions are utter failure

https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/hungary-accepted-the-largest-number-of-refugees-per-capita-from-ukraine/

So did I. Several places showing respect to both Jews and Christians. Like the Jewish bible, there are contradictions there too. But the racists of us see only only what they want to read.

Len Bennet is yet another racist in disguise.

Muhammad had great respect for Abraham and held Him up as a quintessential example of a man of Faith.

Mr. Kedar, isn't this the same map held by the right wing in Israel??

Koran 9:29 commands Moslems to make war against Jews (and Christians, too!) an subjugate them to Islamic rule.

Yes Shlomo it is exactly the same

I only know how to draw the israel map with no Palestine in it

Shlomo.....Again, some of the language in the "New Testament" have been twisted to justify Antisemitism....that does not mean Christians today, can use those words to justify Antisemitism...same goes for Moslems and the Koran

Indeed, agree with Janine.

To Dan: Islam's view of Abraham requires perpetual hostility and enmity between Moslems and unbelievers. Read Koran 60:4.

Carl, best you speak on Judaism or something you may be qualified to talk about

you really sound silly

Israel's maps show the whole territory, including the Golan Heights, as only Israel.

by silly I mean like an Israel-made propaganda machine

To Zohar: Stop your personal insults and respond to the arguments! That is, if you are competent to do so.

I do apologize, I struggle debating with children. I should learn better how to

insults aside, I honestly think you know nothing and I wish you nothing but good health

Mr Kedar is missing the point that the Jewish extremists exhibit the same attitudes whether in maps or religious nationalism. The issue is bringing the full and broader population in Israel & Palestine under governance that respects all human and civil rights.

Clearly it is difficult to think new and enlarge one's world view What a challenge!

more legislation supporting cooperation

Apologies, my problem is one of navigating on this system: 1) I was unable to raise a hand, or voice a view. 2) I voted against the Constitution for reasons I am unable to express currently. (Meanwhile, I accept my "expulsion" under the rules of the simulation, and will abstain on future votes.) Please understand that I respect the IPC experiment and consider many of its postulates as good-hearted, even realistic. There is a problem of "allowing veto power" over the legislation of one of the extant states over the other. New legislation after the establishment of the IPC? Obviously, existing legislation may be unacceptable (Israel's "Nation-State Law", as far as Palestinians are concerned, but many others could be singled out; likewise, Israelis could find various objections and thus "veto" existing laws, as well as newly passed legislation. This is a wider discussion of issues of sovereignty and domination and de facto controls. It is a worthwhile disc regarding any notion of "confederation".

Please stop with the ad hominem attacks and sarcasm. Stick to the issues, please. Dr. Kedar, please suspend your reliance upon reality. This is just a simulation. If strict adherents to the Koran and/or Palestinians will never accept the existence of a state of Israel or a world with living, prospering Jews, then ignore that for the purposes of today's experiment (that is all that it is).

To Libby: The first step in enlarging one's world view is to examine the facts. In this case, the most important fact in the conflict over Israel are the underlying Islamic doctrines which are responsible for the conflict.

Carl...ANY words in the Torah, The New Testament, the Koran CAN and ARE regularly twisted to serve the prejudiced and/or corrupt interests of the power hungry, and those they have under their control through propaganda

Carl, the most important fact is that israel was created with the help of colonial powers and was imposed on an indigenous population not different than how Ausitralia, the US or Canada was created

once you realize this, you can start having a meaningful debate

To Janine: Unfortunately, you are wrong about ANY words in the sacred texts. Those texts cannot be interpreted to mean the opposite of what they say.

Kedar: if all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. (hammer=religion)

Kedar is reciting his training from the military

really useless

I heard all this stuff before

Shlomo, again, all you have are personal insults and sarcasm. You have no counter arguments.

What’s the point of inviting Kedar if he is not playing the simulation = game

he is way too deep

We all know it’s not the current reality

Carl, all I am saying is that Kedar cannot think out of the box. Is this an insult?

The point of inviting Dr. Kedar was to break open the anti-Israel echo chamber which this series has always been.

Mr. Kedar, these arguments being put forth are completely false and misleading and lead to nowhere

And he cannot think out of the box because he benefits from it personally, as he knows people like "black" and "white".

WOW

Carl The best tradition of our Jewish faith in every home and gathering place where we come together to read, study, debate extrapolate the Tanach and other texts is is the daily, ongoing, eternal discourse and examination of the Tanach as a whole, each individual word, each sentence and paragraph....and the meanings therein........

it is rare for a military general to change his view. he made it that far because he never challenged what he was taught

wasn't there just a Islamic arab party on previous Israeli government?

Janine, go tell the Moslems to treat their Koran that way!

Carl go to Hebron and hang out with Israeli religious fanatics

I am sure China would love to finance it

Carl, I know Muslims. They do discuss the Quran and debate as well.

I swear to god Len sounds like a jewish supremacists

sickening

To Shlomo: Do the Moslems you know ever reject the jihadist and Jew-hating verses of the Koran? Do they ever rejecft the assumption that the Koran is their god, Allah's direct and literal words?

KORAN 9:29 Fight those who do not believe in Allah ( JA HUWA= JEHOVA ). Jews and Christians and all believers are not included. In fact, Muslims consider Jews and Christians as people who have submitted themselves to the will of God ( Muslims).

Absolutely reject any racism.

Surely, Carl, you cannot possibly mean to say that ALL Moslems are sheep who blindly follow the twisted interpretations of the Koran of their religious leaders....like the American Evangelical Christians (who claim to be Israel's friends but are, in fact antisemites) ?

Dr. Keidar is the most knowledgeable and the most respected expert of Islamic and Arab culture and issues. His comments herein are logical, realistic and relevant. Secondly, to the participants here, please refrain from personal attacks on each other and the confrontation that leads to nowhere. You are all entitled to your opinions but not to a right to impose it on others.

Amnon yo umean the most respected ISRAELI expert

Kedar is extracting a very narrow reality, ignoring the major issues in the peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians.

מרדכי אתה אלוף ❤️❤️❤️🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱

Asim, you are lying about verse 9:29 of the Koran which clearly commands to make war against "the people who whom the scriptures were given". Why don't you quote the actual verse?

To all decent minded folks here. I am deeply sorry for the behavior of pro Israelis here. Please don't think we are all like this. The Israeli gov has invested efforts to brain wash its citizens to believe racists abhorrent non sense. With time we will overcome and justice will prevail

did he say he is taking off before question and answer time?

Why not?

Verse 9:29 says: "Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the last Day nor comply with what Allah AND HIS MESSENGER have forbidden, nor embrace the religion of truth from among those who were given the Scripture, until they pay the tax. willingly submitting, fully humbled."

Zohar, pls don’t put words in Mr. Kedar’s mouth

Does this mean that Spain was justified to expell everyone who was not Christian....to say the best government is only for Christians ?

Ayah at-Taubah (Repentance) 9:29. Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day, nor comply with what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, nor embrace the religion of truth from among those who were given the Scripture, until they pay the tax, willingly submitting, fully humbled.

Allah or Ya Hulas is Jehova

Yahua

He didn’t say 7 states. He said 7 industrial zones.

Many thanks, again, to Josef for inviting Dr. Kedar into this anti-Israel echo chamber.

those who were given the Scripture= Muslims, Christians, Jews and other peoples who have received the scripture

I hope he comes back for 2 hour question and answer time

South Africa and the Bantustan semi autonomous "Kingdoms" !

Those 8 states would be Gaza + 7 biggest city in Palestine, the rest would be annexated by Israel

Let's share time so we can hear from more people

We are not about a debate which is winning or losing but we are about sharing points of view to explore for the best outcome that works for all It's all about listening

There is no reason not to start with a commitment to justice for all irrespective of differences in class, gender, ethnicity and religion. In South Africa people who had been at war for 350 years found a way to live together politically. In the USA Civil War one million people died. Yet they found a USA. Ethnic differences should not become political divisions. Arabs/Palestinians and Jews can and must live together. There is no reason to not start with equality before the law irrespective of differences.

It is correct to listen to all views. IPC tries to get views of opponents. Then we can deal with the views. Cancel culture cannot be part of trying for peace.

Appreciate the perspectives re South Africa and how people stripped away all prejudicial thinking and got down to fundamental principles about encouraging peace and prosperity for all. Appreciate as well the deep interest of very thoughtful people to think creatively about BETTER POSSIBILITIES!!!

Thank you Dan. South Africa still has huge problems. Often it is a nightmare. But people are equal before the law. Despite for 350 there was displacement, dispossession, disinheritance, murder, rape. The law was used to codify the theft of land. People were resisting with armed struggle. The country was on the edge of a disaster. Yet, we managed to recognise anew the humanity of the Other, others who had hated one another even whilst trying to solve the problems. If South Africa could do this, Israel can do the same. The speaker who spoke about 8 tribal ghettoes is misguided.

Sorry, I must leave. Thank you all.

Thanks Shlomo!

Thanks everyone. Must close

So long, everyone. Have a positive day.

Thank you Josef and all for these efforts.

Israel is a superb country, of curse for many - not all- Jews. From a Palestinian perspective the mere fact of Resolution in 2015 to develop Arab areas shows that equality is a challenge in Israel.