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ISRAELI PALESTINIAN PEACE SIMULATION - Shared screen with speaker view
Carl Goldberg
35:43
It takes two to make peace but only one to prevent peace. Until today, the "Palestinians" have always proclaimed their goal as eliminating Israel and establishing an Arab/Islamic state from the River to the Sea. Until the "Palestinians" give up that goal and decide to live alongside a Jewish state, there can be no peace.
Jesse Bevan
35:55
just so everyone is clear, my haha emoji had to do with a comment made BEFORE the simulation started and before recording began
Toby Stupp
39:53
Do Israelis include Arab Israelis?
Carl Goldberg
41:16
Yes, of course, Israelis include Arab Israellis. All Israeli citizens.
Jeff Pollock
41:25
What would be the role and influence, if any, of the Islamic religion on the input and decisions of this proposed 3rd party/3rd state/3rd government?
Sarah
43:59
But Jordan was Palestine before
Toby Stupp
45:12
Sorry but this doesn't make sense, take an Israeli citizen living in Um-el-phahem who defines himself as a Palestinian, who does he belong to?
Jesse Bevan
45:13
so the vote is for people in a particular region regardless of citizenship to find a third way towards peacefully living with your neighbor
Carl Goldberg
46:01
Any discussion of the "Israeli-Palestinian" conflict absolutely must take into account the role of the religion of Islam in that conflict. The Hamas Charter makes it very explicit that the conflict is an Islamic war on the Jews. Even The PLO/Fatah, nationalist though it is, is also Islamic. Also, rfemember that Israel's deadliest enemy is The ISLAMIC Republic of Iran which is not Arab, let alone, "Palestinian".
Carl Goldberg
47:21
I would disagree with Sarah that Jordan was Palestine before. There was no Palestine. There was only the British Mandate for Palestine.
Sarah
47:47
HAMMAS It’s a terror organization , does usa will seat with el qaeda ?
Zohar ianovici
48:36
Mandela and the ANC were also regarded as terrorist up until 2008
Zohar ianovici
48:51
The Israeli “Irgun” was regarded as a terrorist organization
Carl Goldberg
49:56
In response to Jesse, there can be no peaceful solution until the Palestinian-Arab population gives up the narrative of the Nakba and until it renounces the Jew-hating doctrines found in the Koran.
Zohar ianovici
50:25
Wait do you deny the Nakba? Most non brain washed Israeli acknowledge it
Carl Goldberg
51:40
The Nakba is a false narrative. It prevents Palestinian Arabs from ever agreeing to live in peace alongside (or inside) a sovereign Jewish Israel.
NABIL SATER
51:54
Hamas IS NOT a terror org. It is only labeled as such by the West. Many of your prime ministers were considered terrorists and were wanted. Also bear in mind that Israel heavily funded Hamas, openly, to undermine Arafat. An experiment gone bad, perhaps? But I thought this discussion is about Peace simulation and not accusations
Zohar Ianovici
53:42
if the Nakba is a false narrative you should tell that to the Israeli historians that lecture about it and the Israeli MKs who threaten the Palestinians with a second Nakba
Zev Shapiro
55:23
The Nakba is the Justice that was Doles out to the Palestinian People for their baseless discriminationitory Hatred which the Arabs are responsible for
Carl Goldberg
55:35
Was Israeli support for Hamas an experiment gone bad? Not necessarily. It was designed to divide the Palestinian Arabs, and it has accomplished that. Hamas is a counterweight to Fatah, and Fatah is every bit as terrorist and Jew-hating as Hamas.
Zohar Ianovici
56:19
does that mean that Bibi Netanyahu shakes hands with terrorists? don't know doesn't sound like him
Zohar Ianovici
56:39
Nakba is Justice? gosh man you are disgustingly evil
Zohar Ianovici
57:09
So you either deny the Nakba or justify it, you can't have both
Carl Goldberg
57:25
Even Rabin shook hands with the terrorist Arafat. For tactical diplomatic reasons, it is sometimes necessary.
Zohar Ianovici
57:50
aha. and was Mandela a terrorist then?
Zohar Ianovici
58:01
how about all the members of the Israeli Irgun?
Carl Goldberg
01:00:49
To Zohar: There was no "Nakba". That is an Arab Palestinian lie. There was a war between the Arabs and the Jews, and the Arabs lost.
Zohar Ianovici
01:01:48
Carl, your version of history is the one my government pushed on others. sad you can't see thru it.
Zohar Ianovici
01:02:06
I used to recite this BS myself before I grew up. hope you can do the same one day
Clement Segal
01:02:33
What about Tunisia and Turkey professor?
Shlomo Orr
01:02:59
Total nonsense by Kedar. Simply racist.
Olivia Southward
01:03:06
Iaraeli historians? Yes, the ones I'm most familiar with are Ilan Pappé and Avi Schlaim - jewish Israeli historians who work in the UK and are much respected by their colleagues the world over. Serious academics who have spent decades studying (and re-writing) the history of their native land.Try reading their work.Thank you.
Zohar Ianovici
01:03:22
Mordechai is an Islam expert now?
Clement Segal
01:03:29
??
Jesse Bevan
01:03:53
what about Iraq before 1990 or Iran before 1978?
Zohar Ianovici
01:04:04
Iran before 1953..
Shlomo Orr
01:04:18
What about Egypt during Nasser's rule?
Janine Edmée Hakim
01:04:19
Pardon me, the fact si that......Many Palestinians are Christians
Jesse Bevan
01:04:19
UN has issues but isn't that worldwide org "secular?"
Janine Edmée Hakim
01:04:59
Mr. Kedar....what about the many Palestinians who are Christians ?
Shlomo Orr
01:05:15
We are not talking about a Jewish state. We are talking about a new state.
NABIL SATER
01:05:22
Cannot believe what I am hearing
Jesse Bevan
01:05:25
Syria?
Don Raphael
01:05:28
These are false arguments generalizing an argulably false statement about a religion with all of the Palestinian people in Israel and Palestine. A ridiculous argument.
Carl Goldberg
01:05:38
To Zohar: It is not my version of history. It is history. The Arab war against the Jews was started by the Arabs with the goal of annihilating the Jews. The Arabs lost. The Arabs must accept the results of losing their war of aggression.
Zohar Ianovici
01:06:24
right. Carl. please consider reading Benny Morris, Shlaim, Pappe and any other jewish historians cause you clearly have a very silly understanding of history
Shlomo Orr
01:06:35
Yes Kedar, we all want to survive and make compromises all along!
Jesse Bevan
01:06:59
the point of the IPC is a reaction to failures of one and two state solutions
Zohar Ianovici
01:07:17
should the jews accept the result of the second world war? should we not be compensated by the European countries that expelled us? we even get citizenship from Spain some 500 years agfter
Carl Goldberg
01:08:01
Dr. Kedar is absolutely correct about the role of the religion of Islam in the conflict. He is a recognized expert.
Shlomo Orr
01:08:20
Racist Nonsense
Jesse Bevan
01:08:36
this is like African Union or UN. can be "secular."
Carl Goldberg
01:09:11
To Shlomo, what you write is absurd. This is not a matter of race; it is a matter of religion and the religious doctrines which motivate the behavior of its adherents.
Shlomo Orr
01:09:38
Same thing!
Shlomo Orr
01:10:07
Think about the Jews in the diaspora
Carl Goldberg
01:10:15
I want to thank Josef for FINALLY inviting an expert who is pro-Israel!
Shlomo Orr
01:10:30
And the antisemitism against the relgion
Carl Goldberg
01:11:20
To Shlomo: It is logically absurd to equate race with religion.
Shlomo Orr
01:11:50
So how do you explain antisemitis?
Shlomo Orr
01:12:03
antisemitism
Shlomo Orr
01:12:45
Hate of Jews who hold the Jewish religion - isn't it?
Jesse Bevan
01:13:07
it's another line of communication to bring about peace
Carl Goldberg
01:13:08
To Shlomo: ISLAMIC antisemitism is explained by the Koran and Muhammad's Sunnah.
Yehuda Schwartz
01:14:05
Europe is a confederation of states. IPC needs a Palestinian state already existing. One can't have a confederation of a State and a non-state...
Shlomo Orr
01:14:08
You know nothing about the Quran
Carl Goldberg
01:14:26
ISLAMIC antisemitism is based on religion, not on race like Nazi antisemitism was.
Shlomo Orr
01:14:33
I meant to Carl
Carl Goldberg
01:14:58
To Shlomo: You have obviously not read the Koran. I have.
Zohar Ianovici
01:15:23
Yes Carl you sound super knowledgeable
Janine Edmée Hakim
01:15:25
No Shlomo....1 Example : many many several generation long converted Jews were persecuted and killed by the Nazis
Karen Chester
01:15:28
Hungary accepts refugees by the way
Jesse Bevan
01:15:30
if 19 out of 20 proposed legislations failed but one succeeded in first year, IPC would be a success. status quo one/two state solutions are utter failure
Karen Chester
01:15:35
https://www.schengenvisainfo.com/news/hungary-accepted-the-largest-number-of-refugees-per-capita-from-ukraine/
Shlomo Orr
01:16:55
So did I. Several places showing respect to both Jews and Christians. Like the Jewish bible, there are contradictions there too. But the racists of us see only only what they want to read.
Shlomo Orr
01:17:42
Len Bennet is yet another racist in disguise.
Dan Enslow
01:18:35
Muhammad had great respect for Abraham and held Him up as a quintessential example of a man of Faith.
Shlomo Orr
01:19:47
Mr. Kedar, isn't this the same map held by the right wing in Israel??
Carl Goldberg
01:19:48
Koran 9:29 commands Moslems to make war against Jews (and Christians, too!) an subjugate them to Islamic rule.
Zohar Ianovici
01:20:06
Yes Shlomo it is exactly the same
Zohar Ianovici
01:20:28
I only know how to draw the israel map with no Palestine in it
Janine Edmée Hakim
01:20:33
Shlomo.....Again, some of the language in the "New Testament" have been twisted to justify Antisemitism....that does not mean Christians today, can use those words to justify Antisemitism...same goes for Moslems and the Koran
Shlomo Orr
01:21:06
Indeed, agree with Janine.
Carl Goldberg
01:21:36
To Dan: Islam's view of Abraham requires perpetual hostility and enmity between Moslems and unbelievers. Read Koran 60:4.
Zohar Ianovici
01:21:51
Carl, best you speak on Judaism or something you may be qualified to talk about
Zohar Ianovici
01:21:54
you really sound silly
Tamar Yaron
01:22:18
Israel's maps show the whole territory, including the Golan Heights, as only Israel.
Zohar Ianovici
01:22:21
by silly I mean like an Israel-made propaganda machine
Carl Goldberg
01:22:55
To Zohar: Stop your personal insults and respond to the arguments! That is, if you are competent to do so.
Zohar Ianovici
01:23:25
I do apologize, I struggle debating with children. I should learn better how to
Zohar Ianovici
01:23:51
insults aside, I honestly think you know nothing and I wish you nothing but good health
Don Raphael
01:24:05
Mr Kedar is missing the point that the Jewish extremists exhibit the same attitudes whether in maps or religious nationalism. The issue is bringing the full and broader population in Israel & Palestine under governance that respects all human and civil rights.
Libby Traubman
01:24:08
Clearly it is difficult to think new and enlarge one's world view What a challenge!
Jesse Bevan
01:25:14
more legislation supporting cooperation
John Anderson
01:25:32
Apologies, my problem is one of navigating on this system: 1) I was unable to raise a hand, or voice a view. 2) I voted against the Constitution for reasons I am unable to express currently. (Meanwhile, I accept my "expulsion" under the rules of the simulation, and will abstain on future votes.) Please understand that I respect the IPC experiment and consider many of its postulates as good-hearted, even realistic. There is a problem of "allowing veto power" over the legislation of one of the extant states over the other. New legislation after the establishment of the IPC? Obviously, existing legislation may be unacceptable (Israel's "Nation-State Law", as far as Palestinians are concerned, but many others could be singled out; likewise, Israelis could find various objections and thus "veto" existing laws, as well as newly passed legislation. This is a wider discussion of issues of sovereignty and domination and de facto controls. It is a worthwhile disc regarding any notion of "confederation".
Jeff Pollock
01:25:49
Please stop with the ad hominem attacks and sarcasm. Stick to the issues, please. Dr. Kedar, please suspend your reliance upon reality. This is just a simulation. If strict adherents to the Koran and/or Palestinians will never accept the existence of a state of Israel or a world with living, prospering Jews, then ignore that for the purposes of today's experiment (that is all that it is).
Carl Goldberg
01:27:16
To Libby: The first step in enlarging one's world view is to examine the facts. In this case, the most important fact in the conflict over Israel are the underlying Islamic doctrines which are responsible for the conflict.
Janine Edmée Hakim
01:28:14
Carl...ANY words in the Torah, The New Testament, the Koran CAN and ARE regularly twisted to serve the prejudiced and/or corrupt interests of the power hungry, and those they have under their control through propaganda
Zohar Ianovici
01:28:46
Carl, the most important fact is that israel was created with the help of colonial powers and was imposed on an indigenous population not different than how Ausitralia, the US or Canada was created
Zohar Ianovici
01:29:08
once you realize this, you can start having a meaningful debate
Carl Goldberg
01:29:48
To Janine: Unfortunately, you are wrong about ANY words in the sacred texts. Those texts cannot be interpreted to mean the opposite of what they say.
Shlomo Orr
01:31:20
Kedar: if all you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail. (hammer=religion)
Zohar Ianovici
01:31:45
Kedar is reciting his training from the military
Zohar Ianovici
01:31:47
really useless
Zohar Ianovici
01:31:56
I heard all this stuff before
Carl Goldberg
01:32:00
Shlomo, again, all you have are personal insults and sarcasm. You have no counter arguments.
Clement Segal
01:32:04
What’s the point of inviting Kedar if he is not playing the simulation = game
Zohar Ianovici
01:32:09
he is way too deep
Clement Segal
01:32:16
We all know it’s not the current reality
Shlomo Orr
01:32:40
Carl, all I am saying is that Kedar cannot think out of the box. Is this an insult?
Carl Goldberg
01:33:31
The point of inviting Dr. Kedar was to break open the anti-Israel echo chamber which this series has always been.
Don Raphael
01:33:45
Mr. Kedar, these arguments being put forth are completely false and misleading and lead to nowhere
Shlomo Orr
01:34:20
And he cannot think out of the box because he benefits from it personally, as he knows people like "black" and "white".
Libby Traubman
01:34:30
WOW
Janine Edmée Hakim
01:34:54
Carl The best tradition of our Jewish faith in every home and gathering place where we come together to read, study, debate extrapolate the Tanach and other texts is is the daily, ongoing, eternal discourse and examination of the Tanach as a whole, each individual word, each sentence and paragraph....and the meanings therein........
Zohar Ianovici
01:35:22
it is rare for a military general to change his view. he made it that far because he never challenged what he was taught
Jesse Bevan
01:35:33
wasn't there just a Islamic arab party on previous Israeli government?
Carl Goldberg
01:35:38
Janine, go tell the Moslems to treat their Koran that way!
Zohar Ianovici
01:36:25
Carl go to Hebron and hang out with Israeli religious fanatics
Jesse Bevan
01:37:26
I am sure China would love to finance it
Shlomo Orr
01:38:35
Carl, I know Muslims. They do discuss the Quran and debate as well.
Zohar Ianovici
01:40:44
I swear to god Len sounds like a jewish supremacists
Zohar Ianovici
01:40:51
sickening
Carl Goldberg
01:40:57
To Shlomo: Do the Moslems you know ever reject the jihadist and Jew-hating verses of the Koran? Do they ever rejecft the assumption that the Koran is their god, Allah's direct and literal words?
Asim Altamimi
01:41:14
KORAN 9:29 Fight those who do not believe in Allah ( JA HUWA= JEHOVA ). Jews and Christians and all believers are not included. In fact, Muslims consider Jews and Christians as people who have submitted themselves to the will of God ( Muslims).
Shlomo Orr
01:41:23
Absolutely reject any racism.
Janine Edmée Hakim
01:43:10
Surely, Carl, you cannot possibly mean to say that ALL Moslems are sheep who blindly follow the twisted interpretations of the Koran of their religious leaders....like the American Evangelical Christians (who claim to be Israel's friends but are, in fact antisemites) ?
Amnon Charash
01:43:21
Dr. Keidar is the most knowledgeable and the most respected expert of Islamic and Arab culture and issues. His comments herein are logical, realistic and relevant. Secondly, to the participants here, please refrain from personal attacks on each other and the confrontation that leads to nowhere. You are all entitled to your opinions but not to a right to impose it on others.
Zohar Ianovici
01:43:44
Amnon yo umean the most respected ISRAELI expert
Shlomo Orr
01:43:44
Kedar is extracting a very narrow reality, ignoring the major issues in the peace talks between Israel and the Palestinians.
Sarah
01:44:17
מרדכי אתה אלוף ❤️❤️❤️🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱🇮🇱
Carl Goldberg
01:44:32
Asim, you are lying about verse 9:29 of the Koran which clearly commands to make war against "the people who whom the scriptures were given". Why don't you quote the actual verse?
Zohar Ianovici
01:46:11
To all decent minded folks here. I am deeply sorry for the behavior of pro Israelis here. Please don't think we are all like this. The Israeli gov has invested efforts to brain wash its citizens to believe racists abhorrent non sense. With time we will overcome and justice will prevail
Jesse Bevan
01:46:35
did he say he is taking off before question and answer time?
Janine Edmée Hakim
01:48:26
Why not?
Carl Goldberg
01:48:29
Verse 9:29 says: "Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the last Day nor comply with what Allah AND HIS MESSENGER have forbidden, nor embrace the religion of truth from among those who were given the Scripture, until they pay the tax. willingly submitting, fully humbled."
Naomi Kat
01:49:55
Zohar, pls don’t put words in Mr. Kedar’s mouth
Janine Edmée Hakim
01:50:42
Does this mean that Spain was justified to expell everyone who was not Christian....to say the best government is only for Christians ?
Asim Altamimi
01:50:44
Ayah at-Taubah (Repentance) 9:29. Fight those who do not believe in Allah and the Last Day, nor comply with what Allah and His Messenger have forbidden, nor embrace the religion of truth from among those who were given the Scripture, until they pay the tax, willingly submitting, fully humbled.
Asim Altamimi
01:51:23
Allah or Ya Hulas is Jehova
Asim Altamimi
01:51:31
Yahua
Naomi Kat
01:52:32
He didn’t say 7 states. He said 7 industrial zones.
Carl Goldberg
01:52:32
Many thanks, again, to Josef for inviting Dr. Kedar into this anti-Israel echo chamber.
Asim Altamimi
01:52:48
those who were given the Scripture= Muslims, Christians, Jews and other peoples who have received the scripture
Jesse Bevan
01:56:56
I hope he comes back for 2 hour question and answer time
Janine Edmée Hakim
01:57:56
South Africa and the Bantustan semi autonomous "Kingdoms" !
Clement Segal
01:58:07
Those 8 states would be Gaza + 7 biggest city in Palestine, the rest would be annexated by Israel
Libby Traubman
02:00:10
Let's share time so we can hear from more people
Libby Traubman
02:02:21
We are not about a debate which is winning or losing but we are about sharing points of view to explore for the best outcome that works for all It's all about listening
Reederwan Craayenstein
02:07:49
There is no reason not to start with a commitment to justice for all irrespective of differences in class, gender, ethnicity and religion. In South Africa people who had been at war for 350 years found a way to live together politically. In the USA Civil War one million people died. Yet they found a USA. Ethnic differences should not become political divisions. Arabs/Palestinians and Jews can and must live together. There is no reason to not start with equality before the law irrespective of differences.
Reederwan Craayenstein
02:10:35
It is correct to listen to all views. IPC tries to get views of opponents. Then we can deal with the views. Cancel culture cannot be part of trying for peace.
Dan Enslow
02:17:13
Appreciate the perspectives re South Africa and how people stripped away all prejudicial thinking and got down to fundamental principles about encouraging peace and prosperity for all. Appreciate as well the deep interest of very thoughtful people to think creatively about BETTER POSSIBILITIES!!!
Reederwan Craayenstein
02:20:58
Thank you Dan. South Africa still has huge problems. Often it is a nightmare. But people are equal before the law. Despite for 350 there was displacement, dispossession, disinheritance, murder, rape. The law was used to codify the theft of land. People were resisting with armed struggle. The country was on the edge of a disaster. Yet, we managed to recognise anew the humanity of the Other, others who had hated one another even whilst trying to solve the problems. If South Africa could do this, Israel can do the same. The speaker who spoke about 8 tribal ghettoes is misguided.
Shlomo Orr
02:25:34
Sorry, I must leave. Thank you all.
Zohar Ianovici
02:25:48
Thanks Shlomo!
Libby Traubman
02:28:03
Thanks everyone. Must close
Amnon Charash
02:35:11
So long, everyone. Have a positive day.
Don Raphael
02:39:49
Thank you Josef and all for these efforts.
Reederwan Craayenstein
02:50:51
Israel is a superb country, of curse for many - not all- Jews. From a Palestinian perspective the mere fact of Resolution in 2015 to develop Arab areas shows that equality is a challenge in Israel.