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AERO Conference June 2021 - Shared screen with speaker view
Richard Fransham
10:39:23
Hi Mahi
Mahi
10:39:47
hello richard
Liza Loop
10:49:18
Is advertising ‘coercive communication’?
Liz Campbell
10:50:19
In another session, Zak said advertising is 21st century slavery
Sarah Kline
10:53:09
Interesting … that’s strange to hear - kind of like “books killed the schools”
Linnea
10:53:58
everyone should consider learning some code <3
Liz Campbell
10:55:05
@Linnea, been there done that…my kingdom for a comma :)
Sarah Kline
10:55:16
I think this is an interesting comparison with sex ed. Agree completely. Serious and important and abstinence will backfire.
Sarah Kline
10:55:35
(Abstinence education will backfire)
Dileepa Manawadu
10:56:15
@Linnea - never thought of this way till hearing Zak. It makes sense now, that perhaps learning some coding earlier on, keeps me in check of what goes on in digital devices and technology with enough scepticism :- )
Dileepa Manawadu
10:56:42
And I think everyone should perhaps use a little bit of marketing and advertising too - to understand propaganda and coercion :-)
Dileepa Manawadu
10:56:52
*:learn a litle
Peter Berg
10:57:52
Zak’s Books - https://www.amazon.com/Zachary-Stein/e/B01DMZCTEE%3Fref=dbs_a_mng_rwt_scns_share
sheryl
10:58:08
Seymour Papert/ Michael Resnick (MIT) wrote/write about learning to code.
Linnea
10:58:55
Learning to code allows for the context needed to start seeing the forest for the trees. Tree + Fire can equal warm, but it can also equally deadly forest fire.
Dileepa Manawadu
10:59:00
Yes. I completely believe that our civilisation is collapsing.
deborourke
11:00:13
They always ask the right questions
Liza Loop
11:01:40
We need to figure out what has changed and what has not changed. Just because there is an accelerating rate of change doesn’t mean we have to panic or conclude that adults have nothing to offer children.
Mahi
11:02:06
https://www.forbesindia.com/article/take-one-big-story-of-the-day/whitehat-jr-and-the-curious-case-of-disappearing-dissent/63627/1
FC Facilitator
11:02:31
Not yet
deborourke
11:02:31
George Dennison called it natural authority
Mahi
11:02:53
ed tech became hype in India during covid
Sarah Kline
11:03:36
YES!!! They can learn most things in the way they learn to walk and speak. Precisely. All humans will seek to learn. But does this really mean we always need a teacherly authority?
Dileepa Manawadu
11:03:41
@Mahi - is all Edtech bad?
Mahi
11:04:18
Edtech company WhiteHat Jr and its founder Karan Bajaj recently got a temporary injunction against Pradeep Poonia, a self-proclaimed whistleblower who has been publicly slamming the company for its marketing and underhand tactics. The tussle between Poonia and WhiteHat Jr originated from a video Poonia made on ‘Wolf Gupta’, a 'student' who was widely advertised by WhiteHat Jr as having secured jobs with companies like Google and Apple for astronomical salaries.
Mahi
11:05:01
@Dileep Manawadu making business out of education is bad.
sheryl
11:05:21
And too, “Authoritative” and “authoritarian” are many times confused.
Mahi
11:07:01
WhiteHat Jr has been using Wolf Gupta as a tool to sell its product at least since March this year. However, while the campaign may have run for at least eight months before being pulled off, it is only in its defamation suit against Poonia has WhiteHat Jr and Karan Bajaj mentioned for the first time that this character is fictional.WhiteHat Jr, a company that teaches children how to code and acquired by Byju's in August 2020, is known for its aggressive marketing strategies. These strategies include saying that children could become the next Sundar Pichai, Steve Jobs or Bill Gates. One kid who featured on multiple ads by the company was ‘Wolf Gupta’, whose age could be 9, 12 or 13, and is said to have bagged a package anywhere between Rs 1.2 crore to Rs 150 crore from Google. All this, because ‘Wolf Gupta’ learned to code, while other kids he went to school with didn’t do anything after they returned home, if Whitehat Jr’s messaging is anything to go by. Wolf Gupta allegedly even had a LinkedIn account of
Mahi
11:07:20
his own. Another name used often in similar ads was Ryan Venkat.
Liza Loop
11:07:56
You mean that the ‘singularity’ isn’t when the robots don’t need us humans but when the human kids don’t need the human adults?
Bruno Gioia Sandler (he/his)
11:09:39
the irony
Dileepa Manawadu
11:09:47
Indeed!
Liza Loop
11:11:00
Aren’t most of us here trying to figure out how to implement various versions of hub networks?
Learning Without Borders
11:11:07
@Sheryl Seymour Papert has promoted that since 1980’s
Liza Loop
11:11:35
Yeah Mindstorms by Seymour Papert
Guilhem LS
11:12:08
You mentioned an educational hub, would it be an international one ? If so, would it be an apolitical one that would therefore challenge nations themselves in the long run? Thanks for the fascinating talk
Rivka
11:13:56
marshall mcluhan ,"understanding media"
sheryl
11:17:03
Someone asks about the possibility of international hubs. James Moffett had this in mind when writing “The Universal Schoolhouse.”
Guilhem LS
11:17:35
thank you Sheryl
Liz Campbell
11:18:10
The 13 Social MiraclesDebt jubilee for students & nationsBasic income guaranteeIntegral, decentralized social safety net (healthcare, etc.)Actual democratic governments and workplacesPublic regulation of investment and finance sectorsLegal and economic systems that value the biosphere for its own sakeRenewable and inexhaustible energyReappropriation of the land: agriculture, geography, and bordersTotal planetary demilitarizastionMutual respect between all major world religionsAbsence of oppression based on race, gender, sexual orientation, etc.Universal de-alienation and re-humanizationScience and technology in the interest of human flourishing and exploration
Liz Campbell
11:18:33
http://www.zakstein.org/podcast-on-the-13-social-miracles/
sheryl
11:18:40
Thank you, Liz Campbell.
Sarah Kline
11:19:13
Bravo, Deb! Agree completely!!
Rita Bouchard
11:19:51
children are natural systems thinkers!
sheryl
11:19:58
Holistic learning/education!
Dileepa Manawadu
11:20:20
@Liz Campbell thank you!
Kimberly Wilder
11:21:54
The heart...great question!
Liz Campbell
11:21:57
I think anyone can have “teacherly authority” not just someone with the title of teacher
sheryl
11:22:05
Heart = spirit = soul.
Liz Campbell
11:22:22
Any good teacher knows they fluctuate between teacher and learner
Elmarie Hyman
11:24:31
I love that idea of that hub Zak
Elmarie Hyman
11:25:05
more like willing resources to those who want to learn
Karen Golden
11:25:08
The way to educate the heart is through storytelling. When stories are shared they go from the heart of the teller to the heart of the listener.
sheryl
11:25:31
Cosmic education.
Liz Campbell
11:25:32
sacred=spiritual
Linnea Schluessler
11:26:01
My mother grew up in a farm house with no electricity or running water. My daughter's first picture was shared in the cloud minutes after she was born. The new world is here.
Wendy Raver (she/her)
11:26:55
Well said, Zak
Karen Golden
11:27:16
Questions about the sacred and about death can be addressed through the sharing of stories.
Dileepa Manawadu
11:27:32
Yes. My 6 year old asked this profound question -so what happens after death and. I realised that all I knew was whatever the various “isms talk about.
Kimberly Wilder
11:28:24
Some of teacherly authority sounds like when people realize that each skill area learned has a "literacy". So, people who are computer illiterate, lean on and respect input from folks (adults or children) or are computer literate and help them. I think a lot of online discussions and national discussions fall apart because people do not know what people's "expertise" or "literacy" are, and are not able to give new people or strangers "teacherly authority".
Mahi
11:29:35
I would love to believe that when I die I will live again, that some thinking, feeling, remembering part of me will continue. But much as I want to believe that, and despite the ancient and worldwide cultural traditions that assert an afterlife, I know of nothing to suggest that it is more than wishful thinking.The world is so exquisite with so much love and moral depth, that there is no reason to deceive ourselves with pretty stories for which there's little good evidence. Far better it seems to me, in our vulnerability, is to look death in the eye and to be grateful every day for the brief but magnificent opportunity that life provides.Carl Sagan
Heather MacTaggart
11:30:23
@bruno great question!
Jimmy
11:31:04
@Mahi The good news is that many things were merely wishful thinking before someone found a way to do it. Walking on the moon, for instance.Who knows? Someday we may actually *invent* resurrection, and the dead will live again...
Jimmy
11:31:26
In the shorter term, there's legit science being done to lengthen the lifespans of those who have not yet died.
Jimmy
11:31:37
https://news.harvard.edu/gazette/story/2019/03/anti-aging-research-prime-time-for-an-impact-on-the-globe/
Alicia Richard
11:32:19
Maybe all of those teachers who have left should go out and start mystery schools (;
Karen Golden
11:32:48
Stories don’t need science to back them up. They are what connects humanity.
Richard Fransham
11:32:52
I wish to bring more attention to the book by Moffett to which Sheryl is referring. He deals quite extensively with spirituality, but not in a religious way. I see it as referring to our humanity and how to reclaim it. An interesting read: James Moffett, “The Universal Schoolhouse”
sheryl
11:35:33
So happy to hear that, Richard Fransham!
Bruno Gioia Sandler (he/his)
11:35:47
@Alicia, that could be an option! I'm just wondering what the ones that can't really do that could do. And I'm also wondering how to make those mystery schools available for everyone (and not just for those who can afford it)
Jimmy
11:36:27
Sorry, I came in late. What is a "mystery school"?
Wendy Raver (she/her)
11:36:57
Kids are always meditating on the absolutes, the ineffable questions….
Rita Bouchard
11:38:50
SoTrue!
Jimmy
11:39:19
I disagree with the notion of forcing kids to learn the alphabet.
Jimmy
11:39:32
They'll learn it when they want to. All you have to do is make resources available.
Sarah Kline
11:39:33
That sounds fear based that the child wouldn’t go on to learn the alphabet,
Liz Campbell
11:39:41
I might ask why don’t you want to learn the alphabet?
Kathryn Brewer
11:39:47
It is interesting that my question about heart has gone to a discussion of belief about life after death and religion. Peer reviewed science about the power and foundational energy of the heart as primary above the mind and the now physics of manifestation’s process are outside of religion and I see as crucial for the generations of the future.
Mahi
11:40:55
the experiment that sugata Mitra did was on slum children who didn't know how to read and write
Mahi
11:41:09
so to use the computer they taught themselves
Liz Campbell
11:41:39
So in essence, they learned the alphabet bit in their own way :)
Caroline Keating
11:41:57
If there is a future discussion on the topic of freedom now affecting freedom later - I need to hear more! Please tell me how to join. Thank you.
Mahi
11:42:29
https://youtu.be/kNFM-uUzqE8
sheryl
11:42:34
Yes, to libraries being hubs!
Mahi
11:42:59
A film based on the research of K B Jinan which shows the richness of learning spaces and processes in daily village life. As you will see village children have many more learning resources available to them than even elite urban children. As Jinan says, "Children in villages grow up seeing processes, while children in cities only see products." Lets respect the unschooling that naturally happens in villages.
Alicia Richard
11:43:16
@Bruno, I think those are great questions to think about and talk about. I was being somewhat flip in my comment. Which is why I ended it with the winky face (; More broadly, I also believe that we need more connection to wisdom/the divine/spirit/nature, that may be explored in something like a “mystery school”
sheryl
11:43:59
Zach, do you James Moffett’s “Universal Schoolhouse”? You were just describing it!
deborourke
11:46:33
Glad you turned him on to Peter Gray, Sarah.
FC Facilitator
11:48:32
My husband is an artist that does programs in libraries all over the country . Libraries are often the last free resource for people that can be accessed by all . Much more than just computers and books. Community, space, available mentors(librarians) . Crucial .
Zoom user Cindy Fadel
11:49:17
I agree about Libraries
Mahi
11:49:22
@jimmy, the idea of eternal living comes from greed, to extract, to exploit, for pleasures. this thinking has been there since the beginning of mankind but the industrial factory schooling system encourages it. it tempts us to colonise Mars and feel proud about it. it teaches us that elevators are good invention and the result is the high rate of obese people in the world. all invention aren't good.
Alicia Richard
11:49:48
Love this Zak! That’s how schools reproduce our culture of toxic individualism.
Learning Without Borders
11:50:02
Meaningful and relevant learning is important in self-directed learning
deborourke
11:50:07
Libraries are doing extraordinary work in poor communities in Canada. Safe, warm drop-in, access to services and tech, self-directed learning fall kinds, community, companionship…
Learning Without Borders
11:50:25
@libraries…I agree
FC Facilitator
11:50:46
True. Meaningful, real work. That has real consequences that make a difference
FC Facilitator
11:51:58
The Tribe
FC Facilitator
11:52:24
And trust them as able participating members of a community
Zoom user Cindy Fadel
11:52:32
To me the schools curriculum is meaningless and they is no need to segment the subjects.All we need to know is free in nature
Zoom user Cindy Fadel
11:55:18
To me the schools curriculum is meaningless and there s no need to segment the subjects.All we need to know is free in nature
Linnea Schluessler
11:55:31
#opensource ftw
Liza Loop
11:56:04
https://openeducativesystems.wordpress.com
Liz Campbell
11:56:42
@Cindy, yes, but many learners Donn’t have access to nature
FC Facilitator
11:56:47
Jeff Warren Design Thinking workshop spoke today about how to work together to make this plan. Starting with Empathy
Liza Loop
11:57:53
economic discussion at https://netaablog.wordpress.com
Meghan Carrico
11:59:56
Hi Heather and Richard. can you share the zoom link to our talk on the future of education? is is quite inspired by Zac’s talk.
FC Facilitator
12:00:28
This is a common practice in homeschooling.Parents with expertise step teach their family and friends. They take turns. Chip in for space. Older kids teaching younger kids common passions.
Elmarie Hyman
12:00:51
yip I agree
sheryl
12:00:56
Thank you, must go.
Elmarie Hyman
12:01:37
co-ops and learning centers for self directed education
Richard Fransham
12:02:52
The Youth Rights Day is also initiated to create conditions for us to find each other. Youth Rights Day Facebook group with link to recent UNESCO meeting recording: https://www.facebook.com/groups/933351720770117. http://youtherightsday.com I appeal to you to join the effort.
Chinook Free Learners
12:04:29
Inspiring talk! To continue this conversation, join Chinook Free Learners’ panel discussion, “The Future of Education”, featuring 3 speakers who are at this conference, Heather MacTaggart, Meghan Carrico, and Richard Fransham. I, Monica Truong, will be moderating.
Zoom user Cindy Fadel
12:04:45
Rudolf Steiner “ Philosophy of Freedom “speaks to these ideas . It spoken beautifully on You Tube
Heather MacTaggart
12:05:53
Please join a very related conversation bring hosted by Chinook Free Learns this Wendesday at 7:30 pm EDT. "What should the ideal school of the future look like? Join 3 Canadian experts to design the school of the future, now!" https://fb.me/e/2uyfYuFOV
Liz Campbell
12:06:02
Techno futurism?
deborourke
12:06:16
When will that panel discussion happen, Monica?
Sarah Kline
12:06:29
Thanks, Heather. :)
Alicia Richard
12:06:35
@Liz I think it was techno feudalism?
Liz Campbell
12:06:45
Thank you
deborourke
12:06:54
Sorry, got it
FC Facilitator
12:07:49
They are scared. It’s hard to trust that self directed learning works. It’s too risky for most. But the Data helps . Gina Riley and Peter Gray have a done the data collecting . Ken Danford of North Star has spoken about outcomes. It works . We know it works. Generations of proof.
Alicia Richard
12:08:02
My kids who are in their early 20s are all talking about post-capitalism, and trying to figure out what that will be.
Penny Camps
12:08:05
Thank you Zac …appreciated your bringing the concept ofintergenerational learning to the conversation . It’s been an enriching model we’ve been using in our NGO on the tiny island of Tobago in the Caribbean . Youth support Elders with technology …we have 90 yr olds thrilled that they can communicate and connect from their homes .etc etc
Liz Campbell
12:08:20
An interesting read by Zak and access to his website: http://www.zakstein.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/If-education-is-not-the-answer-you-are-asking-the-wrong-question.pdf
Wendy Raver (she/her)
12:08:27
Thank you!
Chinook Free Learners
12:08:38
@deborourke, The panel discussion will be happening on Wednesday, June 30th at 7:30pm ET/5:30 MT. The details are https://fb.me/e/2uyfYuFOV
Rita Bouchard
12:08:44
Thank you for your insight!
Dileepa Manawadu
12:08:48
I am so glad I woke up at 4.30 am for this. I am completely moved!
Guilhem LS
12:08:49
Thank you !
Sarah Kline
12:08:50
Thanks Zak!
Bruno Gioia Sandler (he/his)
12:08:52
thanks so much!