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ISRAELI PALESTINIAN PEACE SIMULATION - Shared screen with speaker view
Moshe Chertoff-Shomrat, Israel
22:04
Welcome to Brother Cornel!'Ahlan bik!Baruch Ha-Bah!
Haim Bresheeth
31:48
I wish to ask simple question: How can you make peace without bringing an end to the Israeli-Zionist settler-Colonial project, a racist and brutal process of dispossession? Without facing this basic fact, you are not reacting to the basic characteristics of this asymmetric conflicts? Can you please relate to this?
PA. Asim Altamimi
33:31
The same way EU was created.
PA. Asim Altamimi
33:41
EU solved the easy problems first.
Caryn Graves
34:03
Haim, when you say "Israeli-Zionist settler-Colonial project", are you referring to the Israeli settlements in the West Bank? (Because if you are, then I think I can answer your question...)
Jay Heyman
34:30
Clarification requested: Does the Palestinian leader represent Jewish Israelis living in the Occupied Territories just as the Israeli Prime Minister represents Palestinians who are Israeli citizens?
Warda Sada
34:34
its to find the 80/80 p
PA. Asim Altamimi
35:09
?
Warda Sada
35:11
or 60/60 that all can agree about them
Caryn Graves
35:38
Warda- please pardon my ignorance: What's "80/80 p" (or "60/60")?
Haim Bresheeth
35:43
No, I am referring to ALL the acts of Israel since 1948. Israel has never treated the Palestinians equally, even its own citizens.
Jack Risemberg
37:53
I think the point is to put aside questions of legitimacy, and reach a practicable course towards progess, enganging all parties involved. I am not sure what role the relative proxies would play, and am curious about that.
Caryn Graves
40:30
Haim- if you consider the entire state of Israel (even within its internationally recognized '67 borders) to be "the Israeli-Zionist settler-Colonial project", that you feel must be brought to "an end", then, no- the Israeli-Palestinian Confederation will not do this, because the IPC will leave the government of Israel in place.If you feel that peace can only be achieved by destroying the state of Israel, then we will never achieve peace, because Israel will never allow itself to be destroyed.
kahlil sabbagh
41:30
This is a hypothetical project.. let it roll
Kimiko
42:10
thank you kahil
PA- Naseer
42:39
There is confusion between the governments of Palestine and Israel and the IPC. The discussion here is about the IPC.
natty
43:25
I am Palestinian (really I am) and I will act as a parliament member
Dora Bender
43:59
Are the people in Gaza will have free elections? If so why decide who will govern Gaza in advance?
PA- Naseer
44:33
You can put PA in front of your name if you are Palestinian parliament. IS if your are Israeli Parliament member
Jay Heyman
44:58
IS- Jay
Jack Risemberg
45:05
Based on previous sessions, it would be very helpful if was very clear which side one is voting on. As I recall the votes are Palestinians first, Israelis second.
natty
45:21
PA- Natalie
PA- Naseer
46:06
Oh, my bad. Nevermind my messages
Haim Bresheeth
47:32
Palestinian - Haim Bresheeth
kahlil sabbagh
47:58
Could this common government, The IPC, agree on a two-state solution or a one-state solution?
Dora Bender
49:16
Where does it says free elections for all governments is mandatory?
Esther Robbins
49:22
why not have the government of Israel pass the same laws as the IPC would ? and a 2nd question ,Could people from Hamas run ?
IS-Caryn Graves
49:38
A one state solution seems inherently incompatible with the Israeli-Palestinian Confederation (since the IPC would exist in addition to the governments of Israel & Palestine- but with a one state solution, there would be no more Israel or Palestine...)
jonathan Kuttab
52:03
Can we finally hear from Professor Cornell West
natty
52:32
Thank you Cornel for joining
PA- Naseer
53:35
Can you lower your hands if you are no longer wanting to ask a question?
GIDON RAZ
56:01
😍
kahlil sabbagh
56:16
word
Moshe Chertoff-Shomrat, Israel
57:12
Gaza = 2G Internet, and very little electricity. Very little freedom to participate in ANY frameworks that involve Israelis.West Back = 3G Internet, with PA oversight of anyone participating in frameworks with Israelis, although there is a Committee For Interaction with Israeli Society (friends of mine). Individuals are questioned.Israel = 4 > 5G Internet, and we're a mess.Voting will not be equitable from the start. We Israelis are experts in failed elections. The legitimacy of the outcome will be in question from before it begins. Fairness of the outcome will be in jeopardy from before it begins.
Dora Bender
58:27
can anyone clarify - how do you support democracy in IPC - while the governments that are in the IPC are not needed to be a democracy? to none of you is important free elections?
kahlil sabbagh
59:37
Dora, there are no governments in the IPC. It’s its own beast….
natty
01:00:03
It is….
Moshe Chertoff-Shomrat, Israel
01:00:04
Dora, what is a democracy? We've seen American democracy. Israel has the Nation-State Law. Democratic? I'll leave the rest to...
Haim Bresheeth
01:01:34
Israel is an undemocratic entity ever since it as formed. How can it ever accept any of this?
Esther Robbins
01:01:37
I raised the hands,but, I also wrote the 2 questions on chat
Rochelle Cleaver
01:02:04
The UKS is not a democracy. It is a Republican form of Govt because the people do not vote directly for the President and Vice-president. The people vote for Electors who choose according to districts.
IS-Caryn Graves
01:03:51
Moshe. to address the issue of inequality with the basic technology needed to operate IPC elections- perhaps the UN could contribute funding towards bringing the Internet capabilities of Gaza & the West Bank up to that of Israel.
natty
01:03:52
Haim. It will not ever accept..the only way in my opinion is for the people to rise up
natty
01:04:12
On both sides
natty
01:05:46
Is peace is truly sought in support of the IPC
Libby Traubman Pal/Gaza
01:05:56
There has allready been amazing work done to present both narratives in schools with a third area for each person to share his/her story
Haim Bresheeth
01:07:12
Thank you everyone. I must leave for another meeting.
Dora Bender
01:07:20
Free elections as it is - is a basic need that should be addressed! for my friends the Palestinians people - its important for you to have it! it might be not perfect but it give you a platform to fight for your rights
Rochelle Cleaver
01:07:51
Why is it that every two weeks when we have a meeting we vote on the same things? and agree on the Constitution? Are we ever going to talk about any new ideas and suggestions to agree and vote on?
kahlil sabbagh
01:09:31
..including Iron Dome.
IS-Caryn Graves
01:10:44
Good questin, kahil (since the Iron Dome isn't really technically a "weapon", as it's defensive...)
Syed Danish
01:10:47
iron dome is a defence weapon
Syed Danish
01:11:01
it does not fall into weapons of mass destruction
Moshe Chertoff-Shomrat, Israel
01:12:09
The previous vote was a kumbaya attempt. but the devil is in the details.To get each side to accept what is considered "no incitement" will never get off the ground.In general, the Geneva Initiative Final Status Agreement addressed all these issues in 2003. It's still waiting for leaders to run with it. I edited the entire English version of the agreement (the binding version), back then.
Syed Danish
01:13:17
please Jeff dont
Moshe Chertoff-Shomrat, Israel
01:13:37
It's his job, as Hamas rep.
natty
01:15:39
Power and c ontrol
natty
01:16:33
We are dealing with a current government that does not believe Palestinians have a right to be in. Israel
Esther Robbins
01:17:11
The Israeli government will not dismantle iron dome and I don't think that Haas will end building bunkers and rockets
natty
01:17:26
Not while the occupation exists
Todd Beblow
01:18:13
Sorry for my upsidedowness-power issue…
Todd Beblow
01:18:39
:)
natty
01:20:09
Palestinians are at a detriment
PA- Naseer (Jerusalem District)
01:20:31
Palestinian nature is more motivated to peace😁
Esther Robbins
01:20:33
I agree
Rochelle Cleaver
01:20:38
If the Israelis saw a 5% reduction in attacks against them, then they would agree to a 5% reduction in arms also.
GIDON RAZ
01:20:45
I do believe that actually existying
Rochelle Cleaver
01:21:19
Then 5 more
Rochelle Cleaver
01:21:30
asand then another 5%.
natty
01:22:13
Scraps..like kelb ..occupation is illegal,, it would increase to much of a higher number .
Jack Risemberg
01:22:34
I don't understand how Israel can maintain its security within the broad outline presented. In theory, good. But it's hard to see how to practically accomplish it. Also, these seems primarly beneficial to the Palestinains--except that you don't shoot rockets at your business partners....
GIDON RAZ
01:23:19
I do believe that most actually existing Israelis would be against. They will not be so quick to give up economic power, and military power
Todd Beblow
01:23:25
I sayeth pardone
natty
01:24:10
Occupation comes many things.not all good unfortunately
natty
01:24:34
Wall protects Palestinians too
PA- Naseer (Jerusalem District)
01:25:14
I would be against as redrawing the wall as a Palestinians. Why? I think it should be removed
Syed Danish
01:25:46
Redrawing the wall means partition and partition would not support common govt
Minerva Williams
01:26:10
WHAT ARE THE CERTAIN LOCATIONS THAT WALLS WOULD BE ALLOWED?
natty
01:26:24
They have already IDF sneaking in to kill, harass and arrest
Jerilyn Stapleton Peace Alliance (she/her)
01:27:15
In my opinion there should be NO wall
Todd Beblow
01:27:43
Issue likely would require further debate
kahlil sabbagh
01:27:45
Thank you, Brother Josef and Brother Cornell West, for joining us today. I have to split the scene for today. Go, IPC!
Jerilyn Stapleton Peace Alliance (she/her)
01:27:48
I agree with Dr West for peace and justice
natty
01:28:41
Downside is a government that has a one sided democracy
Esther Robbins
01:28:45
unfortunately ,I need to leave. it is a wonderful session Thank you so much Esther
natty
01:30:00
I agree Cornell……will that happen is the questions?
PA_Charles Fredricks
01:30:32
In reading the comments and questions on the chat I would challenge people to contemplate how do we get from the current situation to a point where people are willing to remove the wall, for instance. Once trust is increased and people get sick of their separation they will tear it down, which could happen overnight as with the Berlin Wall; but there has to be that process of increasing trust that gets people to that point— that is what the IPC is about in my view.
kahlil sabbagh
01:31:07
Nice, Charles!
natty
01:32:25
Thank you
Rochelle Cleaver
01:32:26
Not so. In every relationship that exists successfully, you start with today, not yesterday. You go on to discuss the things that both agree on and leave other things alone. No two [people or countries agree on everything. They work on those things together, like husbands and wife that they both agree on. Then he likes sports and she likes bridge, so they have other friends.
Moshe Chertoff-Shomrat, Israel
01:32:42
I remind Brother Cornel of the progress made in the past 4 years. When he 1st joined the DNC for 2016, we didn't succeed in getting the term "occupation" into the party platform.Before the election of Biden, we succeeded in introducing a statement against any annexation. We also succeeded in getting the DNC to agree to Palestinian self-determination!And these points came from Jewish Israelis!
Rochelle Cleaver
01:35:01
Globalization and trade is the first thing to agree on between Israelis and Palestinians between them both.
natty
01:35:41
How do you assert your rights against a monster government? Requires a major transformation
GIDON RAZ
01:35:47
we have a one state solution already. All we need to do is add a big tablespoon of democracy.
Asher Lopatin
01:36:06
What about one state - Jewish and Palestinian
Asher Lopatin
01:36:21
Not fully secular - respectful of the two cultures
Asher Lopatin
01:36:33
Friday off, Saturday off, Sunday off…
Rochelle Cleaver
01:36:40
Jews are only hated because the Italians blamed Christ's killing on them, when it was actually Roman solders that killed Christ.
Asher Lopatin
01:36:43
Id off, Yom Kippur off…
Asher Lopatin
01:37:34
Arabic and Hebrew official languages; Halal and Kosher food served at all state functions. State celebrates all Muslim, Jewish and Christian holidays.
Rochelle Cleaver
01:38:34
Jews have always been ready to trade land for peace.
natty
01:38:54
Our people are taken and thrown in Israeli prisons by the thousands…. I don’t agree about trade land for peace
Syed Danish
01:39:05
root cause to the issue is religion. Eradicate the superiority of religion and you will have peace
natty
01:39:31
Its the Palestinian land not to be traded
GIDON RAZ
01:40:14
eating for peace is easy. All kosher foods are Halal. But Jews argue about which Kosher
Rochelle Cleaver
01:40:43
There is no superiority of religion. "One God, whatever you name him or her."
natty
01:41:19
Not according to the “chosen”
Rochelle Cleaver
01:41:20
whatever Kosher they want.
Rochelle Cleaver
01:42:38
Well, I am one of the chosen and that is my opinion. I am one of the chosen because I do more than just pray to God for help, I try to do mitzvahs every day. That is why I am chosen, because I tkry to help God, not just pray to him.,
natty
01:43:35
We all are chosen- according to the new testament….
Syed Danish
01:43:55
Bring out a secular state
Rochelle Cleaver
01:43:55
The land belongs to God. They are all just temporary residents there.
Syed Danish
01:44:30
God is the reason we have 4 quarters on the land creating separation and bringing our more and more chosen ones
PA_Charles Fredricks
01:44:48
Few choose to be chosen, in the real sense; they choose to love their neighbor as themselves, as another iteration of god.
natty
01:45:09
true
Rochelle Cleaver
01:45:14
Soome are more chosen than others, depending on how much we help God.,
Syed Danish
01:45:47
Your helping God is creating Chaos among the needy on earth
Jack Risemberg
01:46:31
I would be curious to see how man US citizens who claim that Israelis are occupiers would give up their personally owned real estate to whatever native america tribe had the land last (or if that tribe would give it to the previous tribe)....,
Warda Sada
01:47:09
זה לא האל שחילק אנשים/ זה החסידים שעושים מניפולציות עם דתות
Warda Sada
01:47:12
its not god who divided people/ its the followers who manipulate with religions
Warda Sada
01:47:23
God
PA_Charles Fredricks
01:47:45
What you do for ‘god’ you do for yourself (deeper self, that is); no one is more chosen than anyone else- we choose.
Warda Sada
01:48:01
true.
GIDON RAZ
01:48:48
good night, off to my other group
abraham Weizfeld Phd
01:48:54
It is a Zionist fallacy and actually the Abrahamic Covenant did not confer choses status on the Jewish People together with an Eretz Israel. The first son of Abraham was of course Ishma'el and not Isaac who was an afterthought, for ever.
Syed Danish
01:49:31
God may give peace to your heart ,but more of a reason to your peace came out on the price of someone else sacrifice. Idea of God is manipulating the commoners and benefiting the top of food chain
Rochelle Cleaver
01:50:29
I have no idea about what both of you are talking.
natty
01:53:11
Good day/night all. Bless you all…. Gotta run.. Thanks Josef!!!! thank you Cornell West!
PA- Naseer (Jerusalem District)
01:53:15
Today was a good simulation. Thank you all and thanks to our wonderful guest, Dr. West. See you all next time!
natty
01:53:31
Zionism is the root of this problem.!!
Asher Lopatin
01:53:35
Gidon, not all Kosher is Halal. Since on kosher meat there is only one blessing said for many animals slaughters and many Muslims rule that a blessing should be said on each animal slaughtered. Other Muslim scholars are more lenient and accept kosher as Halal.
Rochelle Cleaver
01:56:19
OKay. o what?
Rochelle Cleaver
01:56:27
So what?
Todd Beblow
01:56:35
Many religious attributes to consider
Rochelle Cleaver
01:57:02
I mwna so what to Asher. Who cares.
Todd Beblow
01:58:03
Progression
Rochelle Cleaver
01:58:34
Men sure know how to complicate situations. I guess that keeps them in employment.
Warda Sada
01:59:08
yea HAHAHA
Rochelle Cleaver
02:00:24
Yes Libby. "Kepe it Simple Stupid."
Jay Heyman
02:00:54
Thank you, Libby.
Rochelle Cleaver
02:06:55
Shalom
Todd Beblow
02:07:47
Have other obligations, great discussion, all…adios!
Syed Danish
02:11:24
Coz USA has introduced NRA into ISREAL and odnt need any other corrective measures to bring out peace
Asher Lopatin
02:12:09
Rochelle: it is inconsiderate to just say all Kosher is Halal. That is an example of us making assumptions as Jews and Westerners that are problematic.
Asher Lopatin
02:12:53
Thank you Professor Cornel West for taking the time to be part of this discussion. It is a great honor to work with you and hear your thoughts.
Syed Danish
02:20:39
educate childern
Syed Danish
02:24:35
Legacy going out of hand. only downside
Moshe Chertoff-Shomrat, Israel
02:41:02
ANNOUNCEMENT:The next (#4) Israeli-Palestinian Peace Symposium is scheduled for October 19 on the topic of Security. We will start at 9am (Pacific), 12 noon (Eastern), and 7pm (Jerusalem).https://www.facebook.com/groups/310853280654397
Syed Danish
02:42:14
@Nidal accept the might and save the future of their childern
Moshe Chertoff-Shomrat, Israel
02:43:34
Nidal, that's our Symposium...to influence the American public and administration to move its priority for Isr.-Pal. up from #10 to something more urgent.
Syed Danish
02:47:44
@ Nidal it needs to be understand that the child in Gaza today is being prepared for a fight in every house similarly in Isreal coz it supports the cause to support or please GOD on both sides. Stop telling your childern stories that have no moral grounds. and start following science and technology as it will be the savior of our kids in that region. God has already spilled a lot of hatred in the world already. Peace
Moshe Chertoff-Shomrat, Israel
02:49:27
Charles (& everyone);to be truly "pro-Israeli," one must be also "pro-Palestinian." Because if only one side wins, both sides lose!
Nidal
02:51:24
@sayed I don’t know what are you talking about, you need to relearn what you know of what is going on , may be try to imagine or put yourself in the children and people in Gaza and then try to preach to others after.
natty
02:52:20
Many of us give up at times is because our voices are blocked or prevented from being heard
Syed Danish
02:52:43
@Nidal all I am saying is stone pelting is the reason Iron Dome is created today. Peace
natty
02:53:12
This is our obstacle. The media is controlled
Moshe Chertoff-Shomrat, Israel
02:54:05
The Polyphony Orchestra of Israeli and Palestinian youth are together on Zoom. There are 160 organizations that work between Israel and Palestine on a daily basis. Get to know them and support them!Support the Israeli Progressives to help us end our Occupation!
natty
02:54:35
Great idea..the youth are the future and their voice
natty
02:55:21
Josef. We need to unite with the youth….our IPC idea..
natty
02:55:28
Your IPC idea
Nidal
02:56:40
@sayed. I think the Israelis and Palestinians are more aware and understanding of the detailed dynamics that is stirring the conflict,, it is a lot more complicated than you can see from India,, or Pakistan,, I think you should focus more on the Dalits plights there under you close eyes
natty
02:57:33
We should learn from our recent events here in US
Nidal
02:58:40
@barry ..hamas is not the problem,, hamas is a symptom of the long injustice ABD occupation and hopeless created by Israel and its endless occupation