I assume your slides will be on the website of GU?

well said!! Consultation means something totally different to these poeple

Yes please keep the landscape and current biodiversity which is home to Red and amber listed species

The football pitch is is close contact with the estate and all the children who live there. - IN appropriate.

We on Springhill hear the inmates when using the current football/recreation area

my house just facing the football pitch n 450car park spaces! imagine my kids will see them daily

I site such as the site that replicates the site for Ryehill, Olney should be found.

Annie they won't even be able to play in your garden without listening to them

The change will be a travesty

We feel the same Rod! We will be right next to the football pitch. What about the safeguarding of young people?

They are doing it because it is cheap and easy. Greenfields and very small communities to fight with.

Are there plans to have a large concrete batching plant on site similar to the one being built at Calvert or will you be using this one

I doubt the developers have been honest with the MOJ!

How the inmate not really seeing opportunities of escape from the football field and we can be easy target as hostages? my kids? despite we have had witness escaping infront of our house!

What about expanding Bullingdon instead?

It is hard to believe that the MoJ is giving serious consideration to a site that is fundamentally not suitable for a prison of this size. The illustration provided by the MoJ in its consultation document shows 6 houseblocks ‘squeezed’ together with no space for a seventh houseblock. Why invest such a huge amount of public money in a site that is flawed and has no opportunity for future expansion?

Surely brownfield is better for the environment?

The government have unused MOD sites why use them

We already have an issue with HS2 , EWR lorries that are so large the cannot stay on the correct side of the road especially when going down the corners. It is no longer safe for cyclist or horse riders.

I suspect that a major motivation of the MoJ in choosing this location as part of their prison expansion/replacement/upgrade programme is the fact that the land needed is already owned by the government and that this would facilitate and speed up the delivery of the project and mitigate costs. This would mean that the project would fit the government’s current policies to ‘build, build, build” and to support the construction sector with large infrastructure projects. Can you enlighten us as to what alternative sites have been fully explored and why specifically they have been discounted? What are the particular benefits this site has over alternatives likeBullingdon/Bovingdon/The Mount and other brownfield sites etc etc.

Totally agree with Rod it is not safe to walk to our villages from springhill

The MoJ states within its own Public Consultation document that it is already considering adding a seventh houseblock to the Grendon Springhill Proposal ‘we are looking at potential options to include a seventh houseblock as part of the new prison and will update you ahead of any decision’ along with polytunnels, allotments and 11,000 square metres of solar panels and the possibility of expanding Springhill. Even the most accomplished of architects would struggle to fit all of this within the constraints of this site.The reality is that is not physically possible. Unless of course the MoJ is already considering utilising compulsory purchase orders on adjacent green belt fields once the prison has been built??

The consultation document stated that MoJ not aware of any evidence that a new prison in an area leads to a fall in house prices. Can MoJ clarify this statement? Did you mean (1) professional advice sought from property valuers which indicates that the proposal will not lead to a fall in house prices or (2) no advice was sought at all and therefore no evidence to indicate the impact on the property price?

The red and amber species that are listed need large rural spaces, this will eliminate them for ever.

We already have sewage leaking into fields

How is the affecting the open prison? /

This will lead to permission for hundreds of houses to be built in Calvert, Edgcott and Charndon

Just 380 spaces have been allocated for staff parking, with between 500 and 600 staff estimated by the MoJ to be employed at the prison. This is very likely to be an under estimation given that for a prison of this size there will be between 250 and 300 non directly employed staff who are employed by other organisations working in the prison including education and training, healthcare, substance misuse, housing and other third sector organisations which are essential to support resettlement activity.

They have won awards for their work. Those poor prisoners are entering back in to society but will have the backdrop of a major super prison. What about their rehabilitation?

When I worked in HMP GUW/ Springhill I was told not to walk and that I had to drive for my own safety.

They have issues retaining staff already

This proposal will impact on a cluster of small rural parishes that have already been devastated by major infrastructure projects within a c. 5mile radius of Calvert, and the extended rural road network servicing them. They are already dealing with HS2/The Infrastructure Maintenance Depot/EWR/The Incinerator and now the prospects of one of the largest prison complexes in the UK. There is a widespread feeling in the communities that this consultation is a tick box exercise and is paying lip service to genuine community engagement. If that is not the case can you genuinely say that if all of the local communities impacted remain opposed to the project, there will be a serious reconsideration that could lead to the project not proceeding to planning, and a meaningful exploration of alternative locations?

Do you have the support of the current staff and Prison Officers Association?Have you consulted with groups such as Prisoners Families or Prison Reform Trust about the location?

Have you consulted with local businesses?

How are the families of prisoners going to get to this site??? Have you actually done any work here?

677 was an old school bus no longer in service

The public transport links will not serve employees or visitors. Too far away from any rail links.

Have you assessed the number of accidents? My daughter was hit on Grendon Road. Do you want to talk to me about the legal issues?

I was told I could not walk or cycle to work in the prison, it was unsafe, I had to drive.

There are references in the consultation documents to Traffic Management Plans that will mitigate the impact of construction traffic on the rural unclassified local roads that will be used during construction. The same roads are already designated as construction routes for two of the countries major infrastructure projects – HS2 and EWR. I am not at all clear how you can have reached that conclusion. It is only in the last few months that HS2/EWR have finalised their forecasts and the assessment must have been undertaken before these were available to you. What was the basis of the assumptions you used to assess the traffic impact? The CUMULATIVE effect of HS2 and EWR on these roads is already unacceptable. To add a further massive construction project where you claim to have up to 1000 people on site at times is quite ridiculous.

5 key questions to be answered by MoJ this evening? 1. what do you see as the constraints of this site? 2.as the site is not suitable will you be making compulsory land purchases 3. what other sites are you consulting on? 4.Have you employed a Lobbyist firm to engage with local government about this development? 5. as most prisoners will be from the London area, is the land adjacent to HMP The Mount being considered?

MoJ's sustainability policy states "Sustainable development is about applying economic, social and environmental thinking to an issue andpaying particular attention to the long-term consequences." This proposal is against this policy for the obvious reasons mentioned by Rod.

Well done Rod!

Have MoJ engaged with HS2/EWR on this?

Grendon is a therapeutic community, with therapy groups running daily. the noise from even small build work is very disruptive. why is this not being considered?

Well done. Spending £250m of taxpayers money on a site with absolutely no infrastructure??

The MoJ significantly underestimated the number of staff at HMP Berwyn. Originally it was estimated that Berwyn would have 600 staff, it ended up having more than 900 staff, so the 420 allocated spaces at Berwyn for parking was wholly inadequate with the MoJ making a further planning application for an additional 200 spaces. The lack of parking caused significant and persistent issues for local residents at Berwyn.

When the car park floods, which it will, where will the cars park instead?

My kids are already afraid to wait at the bus stop at Springhill. It will be like an industrial estate entrance.

The parking for visitors is also insufficient. The prison intends to have a visits room for 50 prisoners and their visitors. As the prison will have such a small visits room it will need to have multiple family visits each day, which will impact on other ‘non staff’ visitors to the prison who will not be able to gain access to the visitor or staff parking and will be forced to park on nearby roads

How can elderly with no PC/laptop send in their views is there a postal address

Yes Beth, I never even consider letting my daugther taking bus to Aylesbury just the fact the morning buses usually have newly released prisoner joining the earlier birds kids to Aylesbury.

Won’t the prison be bigger than both villages put together? That is ridiculous!

Are the other prisons within a 50 mile radius of this site even full or at capacity?

Brilliant Rod, thank you so much for that brilliant presentation, fantastic research

Thank you Rod

Thank you Rod

Great presentation Rod! Thank you.

Great work Rod, thank you.

Thank you Rod

Thanks for taking the time to do that presentation Rod

thanks Rod well done. really powerful

The consultation document states that prisoners escaping is unlikely. This does not necessarily mean that prisoner escaping will never happen. We have been living at Springhill Road for 13 years and had personally witnessed a few prisoner escapes. My children also witnessed the incident. Thanks God they are safe! This is a very serious security threat.

Thank you Rod

Thank-you Rod! The visual on football pitch n carparks...spot on point!

We don’t want you to adapt this proposal, we want you to agree that this is not a suitable site for such a large development.

We support prisoner reform…but the site isn’t ideal. You’ve missed the point.

The point is you are not wanted here no matter how noble your intentions might be

Acquiring land easily, does not mean you are obtaining the right land. As we know time and time again from government infra structure projects, cheap is a false economy and always cost more in the medium and long term

How can destroying greenfield sites and effectively murdering and destroying the local wildlife a good idea?

You need to look fro the right land not the cheap land.

Five Wells and Glen Parva are very different sites to Springhill which is undersized and poorly appointed with no opportunity for future expansion of the new prison without compulsory purchase of adjacent green belt lands

How many other areas also have MAJOR infrastructure projects being carried out alongside their prisons?

Exactly. This site is easy peasy… You need to work harder.

You need to ask for bulling don if you want it locally.

How can you build a prison which will hold more than the residents who reside in Grendon, Edgcott and Springhill this is ludicrous

can you share your practicality assessment please regarding the alternative sites you considered?

If they didnt put it on the proposal why did the moj not raise the question? A clear lack of enthusiasm and respect for the local people

Why don't you ask the MOD why they didn't put Bullingdon on the table for you?

Take the NIMBY approach, then we will be satisfied

MOD didn't put bullingdon on the table, did you ask for it?

If it is not a done deal what other sites have you drawn up plans for?

Which other sites are you considering apart from this one

If no decision has been made, what are the alternative developments being considered?

So is that as far as you went with exploring Bullingdon or other sites. Approval was given for a prison style asylum seeker centre in prison style that was never built a few years ago

Leaders do not do what is easy they do what is right. will your children, grandchildren , grandparent and great grand parents agree with you? If not don’t’t do it.

Why did you not challenge the MOD not putting Bullingdon on the paper for consideration?

You have not done enough research! This is not suitable site to build prison right next to community with young children and family accessing daily!

Mr Seaton have you visited this area? Please come and see the destruction that's already taking place here

Come and see the flooding

The site is wholly unacceptable, there is not sustainable travel to the site, a number of smaller residential developments have all been rejected within the parish over the last 3 years because of the number of car journeys that would be generated as part of the development. Can you confirm that Bullingdon will remain a prison in the estate with the same capacity and that prisoners will not just be transferred to this proposed new location? Based on the unemployment rates and locations where you believe staff will be mostly travelling from can I suggest you look at a site location near to where these proposed staff live instead of increasing carbon emissions and generated unsustainable development.

Would you and your colleagues like to wake up every day to the view of 4 storey buildings? Would you also like your children to grow up living next to a football pitch full of inmates? Where they'll be exposed to all sorts

Nick….mate you know what Open Prisons are like. Don’t try and say that this is beneficial to what we have.

Still wrong site. NO BUSES. NO TRAIN STATION. NOT ENOUGH PARKING!

What the hell … you just let them loose into our area

Robin, is your presentation and the presentation of your colleagues going to be reading out the consultation document. - we have already read it! what can you tell us specifically re the advantages of Springhill over other sites?

If you really value the opinion of local residents then just take a look at these comments... don’t build here

since when is 90 minutes LOCAL

Property value will also decrease. Are you also going to compensate all of us for the losses?

90mins! that could be 50-60miles!

Our little estate will be seeing this 1000 of stranger accessing this lands daily bringing their interesting languages and inmates to greet us every morning when we taking our kids to school.

Traffic congestion and no infrastructure to facilitate visitor parking

This situation is not situated in an an area where the inmates can reengage with life outside., no opportunities for work and resettlement.

we know what we have now and we dont want anymore

Bullingdon Prison already caters for Thames Valley and Bucks prisoners - this supersize prison will be mostly for London prisoners

People don’t move to Grendon, they go to Grendon on a medical referral, please be honest.

90 minutes is too far. That makes no sense. Have you assessed the weight of traffic? Accidents?

90 minutes is well into London, Reading, Gloucestershire etc etc

Have TVP made any comment on this

Honestly don't care

What proportion of the prisoners will come from this area? are you really saying that these will all be local prisoners? when there is large prison 40 miles away

Why are you not considering Bulligdon? good access, near a town, near railways and bus routes. It is a brownfield site. This is a rural, village site where your plans will double the population of the two villages that are affected.

not my experience when i worked at Bullingdon

Did not realise women are excluded

what about the impact on the enviroment? We are supposed to be reducing our carbon footprint yet your happy for people to travel 90minutes?

Why are you not considering Bulligdon? good access, near a town, near railways and bus routes. It is a brownfield site. This is a rural, village site where your plans will double the population of the two villages that are affected.

Where's the evidence for these claims?

They have better living conditions than some of the local residents on low income

Sounds like your learnings are from big developed areas. NOT from rural areas with villages…this is absurd.

Having been on-site at Wellingborough you have a lot to learn

You are talking as if it is a DONE DEAL

Be freaking honest

Missing the whole point. Why here - clearly unsuitable area for a whole host of reasons!

Why don’t they say something useful rather than text speak and answer the questions raised

So the release is into the local area

Done some research, category C prisons are for inmates who cannot be trusted in open prison and have committed crimes such as violence, arson, drug dealing, importation, threat of violence or sex-related offences. The likelihood of them escaping the prison might be low (but does not mean never happen) but risks of security threat to the local residents are extremely high.

So you are the developer Phil?

Would you like to live in my house overlooking 450 carparks, 1440 inmates taking turn to play on footballs pitch and all about Over 1000 of peoples greeting us daily...that we obviously cannot sell our house! don't see you would like to buy such house!

So, you are effectively making a SUPER prison complex with over 2000 inmates??

Benefit for a new prioson are you having a laugh what benefits are there, absolutely none

And what is you budget ? Based on how HS2 manage their budget - the bar has been set really low! And what are the benefits for the local residents ?

how do 500 - 600 new jobs help in a rural area

One further aspect is that the only direct road from the A41 goes straight past St Leonards Church, which is already a dangerous crossing requiring road marshalls for weddings and funerals, celebrations and school trips. This development would pose severe safety concerns and render pedestrian access impossible safely.

these benefits are simply not credible and will not benefit our local community

Oh goodie more day release prisoners to go missing amongst our community and our children

I used to live 180 metres from the perimeter of Woodhill. So many attempts to get contraband over the walls. Catapults, drones, etc. Then the police would be on site with cars and dogs. Helicopters a few hundred feet overhead. It was like being in Black Hawk Down.

Agree with Anni where are all these people going to park if an emergency vehicle they would not be able to get to anyone on the springhill site

If there are benefits - why not put the option for localities to opt in? There are many places that may want to house these prisons and may want the jobs in both construction and running the sites. We are lucky here - we don't need the jobs

the government stats show prisoner numbers going Down, so this will not create new jobs

why is everyone talking as if its a done deal?

You have to keep the prisoners in the prison they keep obsconding as the prison say but basically escaping

How about spending your money on preventing people from offending to start off with

your role is not to create construction jobs

We can’t cope with large numbers going in and out, our roads are B roads, already in poor condition. Traffic causes vibration of buildings. Don’t doubt that there is job opportunities the location is the wrong location.

That still is a bad statistic

All these jobs are not going to fill by the local area

25miles isnt local

I absolutely support the idea of ex prisoners being employed in construction. but that's not the issue. this site is not suitable for a 'mega prison'....

So these benefits of a small number of jobs trump the lives and homes of the people who live here already? how will it benefit us?

If this goes ahead will there be any compensation in place or help to move - as HS2 have done?

our protest campaign needs to hit media and the government hierarchy - to expose their plan’s flaws and thereby bureaucratic and political incompetence

16 ipads!

You can keep the donation WOW bribery 16 ipads

tokenism

Trivial and laughable benefits

Im sure that could be matched not to build here

None of this has even begun to rationalise or justify the current location. And in the scheme of things these benefits are tiny.

Well done for giving some schools iPads, when you’ve in fact ruined communities

16 iPads. are you joking? you are seriously thinking that is something to tell us

16 I pads you are joking, ,you think that will buy us off?

nice for the school to get some ipads, but really so what????

Those general benefits can be made for any locations. What are specific benefits to choosing Grendon Underwood?

16 iPads - wow that’s worth it then - this is just PR -

and they will life where???

In essence 16 ipads is a joke taking into the mass losz our area will endure

This works for a place in Northampton. We are Bucks! You’ve got it totally wrong. We don’t have people looking for these types of jobs. Did you hear what Rod had to say. The current prison can’t get officers. You need to go somewhere WHERE THEY NEED JOBS!

Have you research the age of the local community!!

you will house those 500-600 roles where??????

the contractors might try to mitigate the impact of construction work, but the best mitigation would be not to build in a location without suitable infrastructure thereby removing the impacts

Well you can honestly say this is a PR exercise this is all this is

You can start by listening to us and looking else where. You will destroy our community. With your plan

What Gareth said earlier is bang on, what other sites have you looked at? I bet none.

Nobody is disagreeing with the benefits of a new build prison, this just isn’t the right site and far from it

Why a rural location?

Have you not heard that money being offered to local communities is considered as bribery! HS2 have been accused of this!

Green field site

Are you guys not listening, we know the design we want you to note the questions and maybe have the common courtesy and answer some of them

can you supply the sifting reports that show why this is the best location

I think we already know the site location... we live here

Have you travelled this access road

Do you have direct access to the A41?

We know the area I live on Springhill

What do you plan on doing with the current prison and staff?

Tim you need to come to the site, walk round we know it better than you. The map is not the territory.

There is NO compass on the drawings!

We live here 13yrs can't effort move up Main St.. without further investments. How this HIGH PAY PRISON OFFICERS can effort live around here as first time buyer?

We are a rural area!!!

but this isn't a local urban area, we don't want urban features...

This NOT an Urban location

We are a rural area not urban

We want to keep our rural lifestyle

We are not a local urban area - we are a rural community

Rural country side, not Ur

What would be your timescale - no doubt you will overlapping with HS2 and EWR and all the lorries fighting for the roads. This is already happening which results in lorries mounting the road verges and currently the edge of the roads are collapsing. Consequently the roads are already treacherous with the excessive traffic (lorries) and all the mud!

Normal looking in an urban area not in a rural area. It will be out of character with our area.

The clue is in the name SpringHILL! 4 stories on top of a hill. How are we not going to see that?

Its great to hear how you are going to look after the prisoners….unfortunately destroying the local community in the process

we don't want shiny urban buildings

I don't have prison sentences...I don't want see all these fences!

Have you come and looked at what you will be destroying?

How are you going to hide a 5 storey building on top of a hill????

With the greatest of respect to the MOJ speakers – nothing being presented is addressing any of the major concerns expressed by Rod and nothing being presented addresses this projects polar opposition to the government recommendations which Rod shared. Robin Seaton said ‘this is not a done deal’. I hope he is correct because this project is fatally flawed.

How nice for local walkers. We can walk the same paths with big concrete monstrosities!

we cant use the pitch, and the kids don't need to hear it or the extra light

Quite right springhill, the hill is covered in springs and very wet

that word urban just keeps popping up

the flooding will be down stream...

I appreciate that questions will come at the end, but the Prison don’t maintain their areas within the residential footprint at the moment, what will be their incentive to change this??

again URBAN …. our local infrastructure wont handle the additional strain

You haven't even accepted that the position of the fpptball pitch is outrageous, how can you not even comment on this?

What about the sewage that leaking into the fields you plan to a car park

Wellingborough looks nothing like that

Have you seen the floods that have occurred in this area locally?

You’ve used transparency to pretend it won’t exist@

Tim, not sure that this 'concept drawing' is worth putting in front of us, its pretty rubbish

It’s horrible!

I see one person using the bike rack....

Good be transparent then.. tell us why you didn't ask the MOD or MOJ for the Bullingdon site ?

The carpark is on slope...eventually it WILL Bring MORE FLOOD focus on the main entrance and the main access road. Its obvious you didn't do enough research!

Concrete block….is that what you were trying to mimic?

You just don't get it!

We are not in a BLOODY town centre it is RURAL

I like trees and fileds

Not in a village!!!!!@

How many times are you going to say URBAN - we don't want to become Urban / !Town Centre!

What are the plans for “active travel to work” ?

Rural Grendon Underwood is not a town centre...

I feel this is nothing more than a formality, putting a tick in the box. Political sabotage of a well loved rural countryside area

How can you retain an ecological area by building over it and destroying the rural landscape. Please stop staying it will fit in with an urban area and resemble a town centre, we are a rural area. If you want it to blend in put it in an urban area.

Can you please expand on the challenges?

Stop talking about buildings suitable for a town centre…. That is not us!!!!!!

Good then go away

this is meaningless drivel not considered consultation

Digging a hole?

If you spoke to the local people you would realise that we can’t get out of villages unless we have cars - there is completely inadequate public transport facilities in the area - so suggesting that your proposal will be able to accommodate cars is woefully unrealistic is

Tim 'some challenges quite a sloped site' congratulations on under statement of the year

mitigate it by putting it somewhere else!

This is a defence of the indefensible. I’m beginning to feel sympathy (!!!) for the MoJ

How much material will you have to remove from site to make the site suitable for construction.

how can you hope not to impact the locals

They have no justifications

Someone has given you the worst job of the night@

it will be seen from Bicester

Poppycock!

You will terrace the site? Ha!!!

do we legal expertise on our campaign team?

You don’t want it to impact is so don’t build it. Everything about the construction and long term presence of this proposal will impact us. Please stop using marketing platitudes and speak the truth.

why would we want buildings to resemble those we would expect to see in an urban setting - we have already said this is not us. how is this consistent with design and appearance of existing rural buildings in the villages and indeed grendon hall

What on earth is that white thing on the left?

fields are sustainable

So you are a developer? Ahhhhh…..that makes sense. You don’t have to live or work nearby

5.2 m fence ? That is huge .. we are not the ones that have committed an offense that requires us to be surrounded by prison fencing

I love your zero carbon aspirations - it doesn't make this site appropriate though

HMP Berwyn was chaotic so what have you learnt from that experience

16ft fences!!

No doubt more light pollution to join in with the light pollution from the IMD in Steeple Claydon

It can’t be green by boiling over fields. Use a brown field site. It will leave a massive footprint.

you can't build on fields and be sustainable

Clearly it's not just the inmates who will feel imprisoned on this site.

Still no infrastructure or work force 🤷🏻‍♀️

Go and find another brown field site from the MOD / MOJ

What about the carbon footprint for the construction phase and for the staff work journeys

As You said its in Slope all this will bring all Rainfall to the bottom field and to the main accessing roads connecting Edgcott and Grendon... you will be looking for Big flood any time... even light rain!

These positives are irrelevant to us who live on the estate

'SIMPLE TERMS'????

We want detail

greenwashing

promoting it isnt enforcing it

greenwash- the solar panels on site will not produce enough energy to run the heat pumps to heat the place.

Much?????? How much?? How are you going to generate the electricity without burning hydrocarbons?

Where will the contractors park during the construction phase

Oh yeah….all those families visiting prisoners can afford electric cars 🙄

Sure the visitors will all be in their eco BMW’s

We don’t care how its built - listen to us and answer questiosn

And how is all of this of benefit to us residents????????

More Electrical yardage on site sure more Cardon footprints than Green. ...

the amount of ground works to terrace a site that size will require 100's of trucks and ground machinery which you will have to drag through tiny roads alongside HS2 and EWR

Building a prison in a rural location with poor transport infrastructure will NOT reduce the footprint / carbon emissions of your operations. Nearly all your staff and visitors will have to drive to this site for the entire operating life of the prison.

filibustering PR tbh

How about lighthing?

Why don't you just renovate the existing prison

😂

Yes another eye soar on our local landscape

You just don't care

are you recording these comments as part of the consultation?

what emerging technologies? more green washing I'm afraid

Good - go away

Have any of you been to see the site?

Wont be when you are done - if you get your way

So leave and don't come back

dont talk rubbish

then build on a brown field site

most of these points are about as useful as pissing in the wind

Of course it is nice. It is green and cheap to develop. At the cost of the fabric of our society. Shame.

Will the prisoners be allowed pets then?

our MP must step up

tell us who not BULLINGDON?

I bet you are glad you are talking over zoom so you don’t have to answer any questions what a joke

why

Some disruption !!!!!!!

you are useful as a chocolate teapot with the BS your presentation has given this evening

How are you going to future proof local areas from flooding? Light pollution, degradation of the rural area. How are you going to protect the bats by increase lighting? Do you understand ecology? The other land already has populations, so you are going to force them out?

you can't 'add biodiversity in that way - have you included an ecologist on the team or in the proposal?

We don’t care about grey water - Read the comments being posted

What do you mean local ?

This is Groundhog Day with HS2 and all they said at the start. Totally unconvinced!

that’s what HS2 and EWR said

So you’ve already decided to go to planning?

On mute

how can you honestly believe the drivel you and your colleagues are delivering tonight

So basically it makes no logical sense, but it's cheaper than building closer to London?

Tim mentioned his team has been working with MoJ for years to come out with this proposal. There must be a significant amount of tax-payer’s money has been spent by MoJ on the consultancy fees. Why MoJ did not consult the community first before spending tax-payer’s money to develop this proposal?

click the unmute button

the commuters coming to the site alone is an environmental catastrophe - and would have a bigger carbon footprint than the prison - you need to build where people can use local transport to visit

I'm sorry MoJ, this is very patronising; you are not addressing our REAL concerns at all.

None of the presentations so far have addressed any of the issues and concerns raised by the local residents and we are running out of time during this session. Are we going to be given any responses to the reasonable challenges raised this evening?

How is the light poluy

I don’t know about anyone else don’t feel listened to

Please, when COVID allows, come for a cup of tea in our front room during a working day so you can experience the lorries from construction and other associated transport with a development such as this. You may then experience what ‘some disruption feels like’.

Would the MOJ like to purchase those houses at pre-proposal prices for those that now want/like to move?

Great question Gareth

are you actually going to respond to any of the questions or just run through meaningless slides

I have no idea how visitors will be able to access there prison by public transport!!!!

Use of existing MOJ land. That’s the justification top and bottom. Nothing else what so ever has been considered.

How is the light pollution going to be addressed ?

What compensation will there be for those of us who cannot sell our houses? and any shortfall in values?

If planing is applied for 21 days for a major infrasturcture like this is totally undemocratic!

what about the effect on local health due to air pollution?

just in case the colleagues from the MoJ missed the earlier question - has a lobbying firm been engaged to lobby local government about this proposal/planning application?

If they go ahead with the application we will be ready for them!

You’ve obvs made up your mind. We’ll get to work our side.

what are the actual timelines

Are you planning to buy them off with 16 I pads ??????? Ha hah hah

@Rod We are pretty much exposing all our objections here for them to address in the planning application

what are leading times for each of these milestones since you were so deceptive with how you tried to do this before Christmas

What compensation schemes are being offered!!!!!

how long do all those stages take?

Yes but can you guys read as no one is reading the questions

So you are biased.

We don’t need to know the planning process just answer the questions being posed

don't want to worry anyone but more than 2,800 objections to the super prison currently being built at HMP Full Sutton were lodged, including objections from the police.

Did that do any good?

patronising?

Pointless objecting to this team; they are not the decision makers; MoJ land...that’s the rationale

Agree

Let’s meet outside this

You can tell they don't believe a word they're saying

AVDC Local Plan 2004 has no legal status so no need to refer to it

I am sure you have small print to get around that

I will happily join a protest if this is given the green light. Sounds like they have set the wheels in motion so we should too! What a farse

Sympathetic development Andy Benn?

Is there anyone from government that is actually on our side ?

Even AVDC draft Local Plan status is probably irrelvent

plans are at an advanced stage? how long have they been planning? one of the very first arguments for the need for increased prison population is the pressures created by COVID. that’s hardly been in the long term!

there is no need we have 1000 electorates between grendon, springhill and edgecott

Where is ‘Impact to Community’?

Is this the transport assessment that says bus 677 runs by

we have seen the 'ecology work' for HS2...

a suite of technical documents will accompany the planning application to demonstrate compliance with the key development management policies - sounds like a planning application will be made then?

There are references in the consultation documents to Traffic Management Plans that will mitigate the impact of construction traffic on the rural unclassified local roads that will be used during construction. The same roads are already designated as construction routes for two of the countries major infrastructure projects – HS2 and EWR. I am not at all clear how you can have reached that conclusion. It is only in the last few months that HS2/EWR have finalised their forecasts and the assessment must have been undertaken before these were available to you. What was the basis of the assumptions you used to assess the traffic impact? The CUMULATIVE effect of HS2 and EWR on these roads is already unacceptable. To add a further massive construction project where you claim to have up to 1000 people on site at times is quite ridiculous.

The design assumptions made have entirely undermined your own proposals. Quoting suitability of design for an urban environment is absolute genius. I’m embarrassed for you. Picking up a generic design solution and placing it in a rural environment at the top of a hill in a location where no suitable transport links are available is a total nonsense.

Approved by whom?

What about mental health, physical health and our security?

I note Suky Atwal - Director of Prison Infrastructure at MoJ - is on this call but has not contributed

So you haven’t looked at this then! You cannot put more traffic on our roads for a minimum of 5 years. What advice are you giving to the MOJ? How much are you paid?

where is "impact on house prices"? being first time buyers and not having lived here all that long i have a serious concern of ending up in negative equity

WE simply do not want anymore traffic

Absolutely Annii, What about mental health, physical health and security? this is a dreadful proposal.

no more traffic, no more development, no more prisons

we are getting HS2 traffic morning till night rattling through the village already

Exactly!

This is just a generic presentation

Yes is rural area! Its doesn't need more expansion.

A pond?????

It is not just flooding what about the sewage issues we currently have

Where are you going to put the on your diagram

honestly - just go away. There is nothing you have presented here that shows any form of consultation with the local community

out of interest - when your flood risk engineers visited was the village flooded??

If road capacity is inadequate it will be mitigated. So it is not really a criteria to decide on suitability of the site compared to other sites? So again can you f=give the criteria you use to decide on appropriate site .

did the flood risk engineers see all the fields round here that are currently flooded?

Exactly, this is not consultation but lecturing

but if you were consulting meaningfully, based on the responses in this, from the parish council from key stakeholders you would hear loud and clear that this is the wrong site, and therefore not need to do the drainage studies, etc etc.. but sounds like you are just assuming you can "mitigate" our concerns, we are clearly saying to you we're firmly rejecting these proposals in all their forms

Do you mean when planning is submitted. This is ridiculous@

You have no rock solid research...but just all your own making up thoughts!

im sure dave grimmer will happily provide evidence of the real flood risk

So you are assuming that it is already going off to planning

This makes me think the Expressway (motorway) and Knowledge Arch are still coming!!!

you haven't mentioned how lobbyists are going to be retained to engage local authorites

Well said

Well done Kim!!

I'm speechless at how poor and generic their presentation was

Well said Kim

lack of interest in other sites

this village cannot take the required traffic for construction, nor visitor/employment, with existing poor quality rural roads, traffic calming measures and additional projects to the single access route unless you are planning to remove the listed gate pillars, remove traffic calming measures or other such measures

exactly Kim where is the transparency??

Yes exactly why can't we know WHY NOT BULLINGDON...WE NEED SOLID REASON!

they just want the easy option and the cheapest

so the MOD has said no to there land at Bullingdon has this been raised at cabinet level or has the MoJ just rolled over?

Even Bullingdon is not ideal

MoJ land - quick fix by bureaucrats

FOI request Kim to the MOJ for all their impact assessments please plus all the other sites assessed.

land adjacent to HMP the Mount is also very suitable

Well then go and ask them for it

Katrina has just stated in her presentation - This development would be a departure to policy and therefore only justifiable based upon local need. We don't need a new prison in the middle of rural Buckinghamshire!!!!! Perhaps an area to ask our guests to expand on.

Of course. It is not easy. You have to work hard!

have you asked though?

You think????

if you dont ask you dont get

go Kim. where’s Greg?

You never TRY

surely you should have all the information at hand? what a joke

You have ignored answering her question

There are plenty of brown field sites in location

s that need the jobs

Why are you not considering brown field sites before considering this green field site?

The MoJ staff are all talking to each other in the background on Slack anyway. You can see them typing. They should just be open and honest. They can't get land anywhere else.

wasn’t the proposed detention centre going to be on MoD property?

You cannot answer the question. YOU NEED TO GO AWAY AND GET ANSWERS!

MOJ you must share the SIFT report weighing the other alternative locations you considered

Government departments recharge one another astronomical amounts for rent, in the MoJ silo, this costs far more than using their own land

You don't have a clue

I'm not sure that rural BUCKS is a hotbed of crime

The 3 other prisons that have already given the go ahead were they greenfield sites too?

AH AH AH AH AH AH AH….this is what we are hearing.

The closest they've been to the site is Google Maps.

good question, answer is poor

Waffle

This is shockingly bad

load of guff

Great question Mike, complete drivel in response

Rather than go round in circles answer the question I am sure one of you must know some answers

I think it is important to ascertain, when it comes to formally addressing this proposal and our objections, is there any place for emotive language; will this be considered at all or should the responses be purely factual? Obviously this is an emotive issue, but I am concerned that some responses may be disregarded simply due to how they are phrased.

You just did a brilliant job of not answering the question

You are all waffling. Wha is your minister going to say about your presentation tonight?

Where is your evidence that building on a rural site raises house prices? And what compensation are you offering when the opposite happens?

Where is the joined up thinking in Govt departments?

You state you have to move swiftly because of what is going to come down the pipeline and yet you still haven’t given a timescale

Odd is putting it mildly. It looks like a university.

its will be like fitting a square peg in a round hole

So against your policy then

So you are saying you are working against our environment?

it will be seen from Bicester

answer the question - how does it fit?!!

Never mind the bloody “residents” what about urn experience. You are totally missing the point!!!!

Timing is overriding everything here. Not sure how that will fit if it goes to Judicial Recview

Have you actually been here?

This is painful to watch

Flipping visible from Springhill estate

this is just politics, avoid the question and waffle

Really not at all

Its right 20 yards from my house! only across the street

im at 116 springhill rd and it will bloody well see it!!!!!

What about the impact from other directions. Multiple 4 story buildings would never fit in a rural location.

Tim should have gone to Specsavers!!

who will take the final decision?

what compensation is going to be offered to the residents who are going to have their lives turned completely upside down when this project goes ahead (which it sounds as though it will from the way you are all talking?!)

How on Earth do these guys sleep at night

How many of you have taken a bus, cycled or walked to the site from a nearby village?

Kim

So your plans are not accurate and you still plan to change. What is the truth and the true design?

How could you not have seen the access issues. Presume you drove by new BMW electric car!

KIM Can Paul ask a question -

My house again facing the football pitch to sees the inmates daily with my kids! My Family and I will worst living in Bronx!

Why doesn't Mr Suky Atwal - comment??Why join the call if you are not going to participate?

the same happened at Berwyn, very had to recruit locally, with staff commuting from all over the north west

If it were to go ahead … would there be any mitigation for houses affected?

You can facilitate them on the 677 bus

Can I ask would the new entrance feed the old prison as well and stop the cars coming through springhill? Also the football field would be directly opposite our house- could this be an inside football pitch therefore being soundproofed? thank you

I like to invite you all to come to my house! See it for yourself!

This will not be swift for the MOJ, At every stage there will be considerable opposition, including legal challenges and a judicial review. It will be quite costly for you in the long run.

The MOJ is incapable to maintain there current responsibilities with regards to Sprinhill estate. What happens in 20years time when issues start to arise are they going to fix them? Lets face it... probably not

Lorry are already driving up the kerbs on the very narrow footpaths.

Oh please! HS2 and EWR don't talk to each other at the moment .. and now you think you will join the dots?

Damaging lighting and signs!

so we have talk/building of this for 5years or more

Minimising impact. there is a

Suky, you will have 1000 contractors each dau on site. teling us that you will be working across Whitehall to minimise impact on the community does not tell us anything.

ready huge impact. anymore impact would destroy our villages

well said Paul!

Thank you Paul, I'm sure we won't get an answer to your second question

im not sure the MOJ understand what levelling up means

Freedom of information act!!!!

may be we can level up the countryside

They need to build this prison in the South East

Formal request to receive this information equated by Paul

Fair point Paul - what about Essex or Kent

Well no answer again he’s squirming

taking more countryside from the south is not maintaining our need for levelling up of rural and countryside space for us

The south east is wider than Buckinghamshire!!!!

What is the difference between Grendon and Bicester?

Well said paul

Thank you Paul

what a fricking joke

Could you consider the land around HMP Feltham?

Feltham is 90 acres in total including surrounding land

no satisfied with any of there responses

There is so much land owned by the MOD that is unused and more suitable for expansion.

Thank you for this illuminating session

Are residents of Calvert and other local areas getting to have they say?

Nothing is answer tonight...none..! thkq, well done! to look at us all like sillies!

Is it really MOJ. It seems their “consultants’ are being a bit conservative with their consultation

great job Kim, Rod, Mike

We need answers from the MoJ by Monday (26th) latest. i.e. in advance of the current consultation deadline!

Bearing in mind there ia an aging prison population are MoJ aware that the nearest hospitals are over 30 minutes away and there are no hospital facilities on site for over 1440 people?

all this meeting has done has proven to the local people that the moj and its team are useless and biased

there are many more people that wanted access to this meeting. There is huge opposition to this

go Greg, we’re counting on you

Go on Greg!!! We are counting on you

Greg....Legend.

Thank you Greg.

Have all the empty brownfield sites in Bicester been considered?

We don't have a 5 story village hall.

i have 2 young children and we will be right next to the football pitch. i dont want my girls listening to people swearing and larking about when were trying to enjoy our time together in our garden

Greg please see this through! We need YOU! 👍

Our future will be ruin if this prison is going ahead..our children's future and our equity, security, health all will be destroyed!

there are enough issues with the existing prison. never mind adding another one.

I feel exactly the same Luke, I'm sure all parents on Springhill do, and the local area.

Thanks Greg and Angela, great summary of the call this evening with lots of issues raised that have not been addressed. Looking forward to hearing your questions in Parliament Greg.

Greg & Angela - Thank you for supporting this. You did a great job in saving The Spinney

STRENGTH IN NUMBERS

Thank you GU PC and Rod!!!

Thanks everyone

Thanks everyone. I'm off to get the 677 bus.

🤣

Agree Greg. If an office development for 1400 workers in 7 five storey buildings with parking for 500 was proposed here it would laughed at and thrown out.

Kim dm me about next steps on getting the word out.

thank you

thank you

Thank you, we must fight this

thankyou Kim

Thank you to all the local reps, really appreciate it

thanks Guys

Thank you Rod and GUPC.