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ISRAELI PALESTINIAN PEACE SIMULATION - Shared screen with speaker view
emanuel shahaf
27:18
Accent..
syed Danish
27:25
no voice
Avi Applestein
30:34
To All; Please mute yourself !!!
Esthef Robins
35:15
Is it possible to get a copy to share with potential participants ?
Andrew Dahdal
42:12
so called Arab-Israeli's
Andrew Dahdal
42:31
They voted for Abu Yair
Anna Linda
42:44
where does Golan Heights as a region and its population fit in the IPC?
Nawras
43:14
+
Jerry Stein
43:29
Please everyone mute who are not speaking. Thank you.
Alon Nissan-Cohen
45:50
Does anybody know why it was chosen to assume that more Palestinians voted than Israelis?
Marzia Rahman Mumu
48:33
Marzia Rahman Mumu- IS
Niso niso
48:49
PA
Nerina Cecchin
48:49
PA Nerina Cecchin
Esthef Robins
48:54
I don't know how to add Israeli
Bernice Zohn
49:06
Bernice Zohn IL
Jay Heyman
49:06
IS Jay Heyman
Julieanna Thompson
49:15
I AM JUST OBSERVING
Marzia Rahman Mumu
49:25
IS Marzia
jeff cooper
49:34
Jeff Cooper-PA
Marcus Mitrasch
49:35
Just Observing
PA-Anna
49:36
go over ur name, then u will see three dots. right hand click, click rename
Presedent Abbas
50:13
its syrian
Frances Galache
51:00
This is my first simmulation, I would prefer to be just an observer, if that's ok.
PA_Andrew Dahdal
51:01
Even the bureaucracy off the simulation does not give me much faith for another layer of government
jeff cooper
51:01
cooper-pa
PA-Anna
51:06
Thank u, President Abbas. :)
Eduard Strack PA
51:39
Eduard Strack I'm Palestinian My district is mixed
ahmed alsemeiri
52:11
Pa
Marzia Rahman Mumu
52:26
I'm Israeli, From Ashkelon
IS - Barry Werner
53:53
-Who would administer the elections?-Is there a physical threat to the candidates?
PA_Andrew Dahdal
54:15
Better yet - who will draw up the districts
Ebubechukwu JohnOwen Adimike
54:25
I don't think so
PA_Andrew Dahdal
54:47
I would like to hear Professor Chomsky's views
Ebubechukwu JohnOwen Adimike
54:50
Is Mr Chomsky PA or IS?
PA Alicia Park
55:09
He does not represent either.
Oren Yiftachel IS
55:34
would be great to hear Chomskys views on the idea of a new government 'from above'
IS Gill Levy
55:45
With regard to the constitution is there a desire for a secular Palestinian government?
PA-Nawras
55:47
+
PA-Nawras
56:20
Palestinian government have always been secular as far as I know. anyone can confirm?
PA_Andrew Dahdal
57:16
Interestingly Federal examples like Switzerland, Canada and Australia show the dynamics between regional and central governments - sometimes central authority dominates and other times regional/provincial governments have greater power
CHINA Amy Leserman
58:58
Palestinian governments have always excluded Jews, as far as I am aware. Unclear about whether Christians, Druze, Bedouin, etc. in those territories are allowed to vote, or not. So are the governments/elections secular, if they exclude certain groups?
PA. Asim Altamimi
59:01
Of the 193 member states of the UN, 138 have recognized the State of Palestine.
Oren Yiftachel IS
59:28
some of us may need to go at the hour. would be great to hear prof. Chomsky's views!
PA-Nawras
59:54
@Asim, which Jews exactly are you referring to? the settlers in the west bank?
Bernice Zohn IS
01:00:06
The Confederation creates a both-and solution instead of either-or, or so it sounds to me?
PA. Asim Altamimi
01:00:26
Please turn off your radios
PA_Andrew Dahdal
01:00:29
This experiment risks becoming a formalization of the limbo of 30 odd years of Oslo. A group of representatives from bots sides can agree on things but both sides can veto.
Ebubechukwu JohnOwen Adimike
01:01:08
Please what is Professor Chomsky's name here?
PA-Caryn Graves
01:01:50
Prof. Chomsky's name here is "barzeev" (but I don't know why he's got that name here...)
PA_Andrew Dahdal
01:02:43
the 55% arrangement Josef
PA. Asim Altamimi
01:03:34
Please turn off your radis
PA-Nawras
01:03:39
I think it's a good idea to send FAQ document before the meeting
PA_Andrew Dahdal
01:04:17
They would fall into the IPC district
PA_Andrew Dahdal
01:04:28
Ok then who sets the districts
PA_Andrew Dahdal
01:04:39
Gerrymandering might be an issue
Oren Yiftachel IS
01:05:10
Let us hear Prof. Chomsky!
Esthef Robins
01:05:16
i agree with you
Jay Heyman
01:05:30
Let’s please move on
PA-Nawras
01:05:45
sounds like including settlers of the west bank under the IPC districts would be a huge blocker
Eduard Strack PA
01:06:06
This is assuming that 2 viable entities already exist
Fr Pres_Charles Fredricks
01:07:04
Speaking from experience, everything will become clearer if we can hold further questions and move into the simulation to see how it will operate. Gerrymandering is not an issue because it requires approval of both Israeli & Palestinian members
PA_Andrew Dahdal
01:08:07
Makes sense - the election commission would likely be drawn from both sides. Allocation of constituents would be interest.
Uri Davis
01:10:36
Prof Chomsky is next to inaudible.
PA-Nawras
01:10:51
I hear him loud and clear
Bernice Zohn IS
01:11:03
Very difficult to hear Prof. Chomsky
PA- Naseer
01:11:07
Increase your volume when he speaks
IS - Jack Risemberg
01:11:15
Fine on my end.
PA - Caroline Salinger, UK
01:11:23
You need to turn up the volume on your device to hear him well.
IS/PA: Todd
01:11:28
ok here
IS Len Bennett
01:11:29
Show him.
CHINA Amy Leserman
01:12:55
Dear Dr. Chomsky -- But facts-on-the-ground, governance EXISTS in the territories. It functions, for better or worse. What would make that government "legitimate"?
Eduard Strack PA
01:14:38
The realities on the ground exist because of Oslo, it's hardly democratic
PA-Nawras
01:15:15
we really accepted as assumptions just for the sake of simulation
Ebubechukwu JohnOwen Adimike
01:15:50
What makes a government legitimate if not the people? In this case, how do we ascertain the legitimacy?
IS: Alon Nissan-Cohen
01:16:06
I agree with Prof. Chomsly's claim that voting does not affect facts, neither does it affect international opinion
IS Giacomo Valentini
01:16:46
The standard for determining whether a government is legitimate or not can be set in order to align it with UN standards. The Burmese junta represents Burma at the UN, which is an implicit recognition of it.
IS - Jack Risemberg
01:17:20
How is this entity meant to be funded?
PA-Nawras
01:18:08
for the same reason the Israeli government is included
IS: Alon Nissan-Cohen
01:19:16
The legitimacy of a government depends on the active and continuing support of the people it representsI think what Prof. Chomsky is trying to say is that there's no organization that actually gets its legitimacy from the active and continuing support of the Palestinians
CHINA Amy Leserman
01:19:38
I agree with her.
CHINA Amy Leserman
01:21:36
But Hamas is in the 16th year of a four-year-term. Perhaps the Palestinian territory would rather democratically elect a different government, which would make it "legitimate"
Julieanna Thompson
01:22:55
louder please
IS Gill Levy
01:23:01
Why are there two Palestinian participants in veto power? The Palestinian Government was the on true power in Palestine, as is the Israeli Government. You wouldn’t give Likud and Kadima a veto each would you?
Eduard Strack PA
01:23:07
Hamas was legitimate when it was voted in ; but the US and Israel did not like that and rejected it
Charlotte Samuels
01:23:33
Mr. Chomsky makes a good point
PA-Nawras
01:25:20
should the confideration be established despite no legitimacy of every veto participant ?
IS - Jack Risemberg
01:25:25
Isn't the underlying understanding (perhaps with a wink and a nod) that each side might well call the other side terrorists (Hamas, for example), but still desire to engage in some form of peace talks and negotiation?
IS - Jack Risemberg
01:26:50
I.e., that who ever is in charge at the moment, be it a proxy, internationally perceived as legitimate, or not, can nonetheless make deals in the furtherance of peace.
IS Gill Levy
01:27:03
Is Mr Chomsky not accepting that this is a simulation? If you have a simulation on a computer and you vary the laws of physics it does not invalidate the simulation does it? Doesn’t it just make it less representative of reality, but it can still have use?
Charlotte Samuels
01:27:56
Why are did you invite Mr. Chomsky if you are not going to accept what he has to say?
Jay Heyman
01:27:59
Change “Israeli people” to “Israeli citizens.
Fr Pres_Charles Fredricks
01:28:16
Dr Chomsky, would you agree to a clarification that stated that the IPC does not define statehood in terms of territory
IS - Marzia Rahman Mumu
01:28:38
Mr. Yossi, why you shouting with Mr. Noam...you Can't.. Infact you're screaming
IS/PA: Todd
01:28:51
Should Hamas, thus veto power be elected in as part of the Palestinian Government?
IS - Marzia Rahman Mumu
01:29:42
You're an idiot.... Mr. Noam is a living legend.. the best intellectual we're having... so stop using offensive words
IS Len Bennett
01:29:44
Take your hands down.
Jill Davis- PA
01:32:27
I agree with Alon this should be added to the Declaration
IS - Marzia Rahman Mumu
01:32:46
He's a worst host... several times he use ' Misinterpreting' ' Not understanding ' words to Mr. Noam... that's not for sounds over-loud. A man who simply Can't take opposite view or opinion...
IS/PA: Todd
01:33:22
Thus part of the problem
Eduard Strack PA
01:35:11
And there lies the problem : the believe that not everyone is equal !
PA-Nawras
01:35:25
+
IS Gill Levy
01:36:06
If someone is a murder and someone a doctor are they equal? Maybe their lives are equal, but they as individuals are they equal?
Ahmed 🇵🇸
01:36:32
This conflict is a religious conflict, not a Palestinian issue
PA elly levy
01:36:54
implicitly, equal under the law and the state
IS - Jack Risemberg
01:37:01
Again, I think there is a subtext here. It means equal under the law, not equal as human beings. I suppose that could easily be made explicit.
Eduard Strack PA
01:37:51
If Hamas is separate , that assumes that Gaza in seperatly governed, meaning 3 states
Esthef Robins
01:39:59
hard to hear
IS: Alon Nissan-Cohen
01:41:51
That's what I as about to ask
IS - Jack Risemberg
01:42:00
How does Israel prevent illegal import of weapons by terror groups under this scheme?
Charlotte Samuels
01:42:30
Good idea, but it is so unrealistic. Just read the book by Ilan Pappe called OUt of the Frame:
Charlotte Samuels
01:42:35
https://www.plutobooks.com/9780745327259/out-of-the-frame/
Marc Lebret
01:44:30
How many answers to the poll please?
IS Gill Levy
01:44:53
I am moving to being an observer - there is no debate about the wording.
IS/PA: Todd
01:45:10
Economic zone required to be strategically placed!
PA- Naseer
01:45:35
Any resolution does not mean that each entity can have their own airport. This is not the only way just a joint one.
IS Len Bennett
01:46:32
Israeli and Egyptian restrictions are due to terrorism.
IS - Jack Risemberg
01:46:48
Again, how does Israel, which just suffered a barrage of missiles, maintain its security, with free transportation of goods?
PA- Naseer
01:47:01
A joint economic zone, but not the only option for both Israel and Palestine to use. They can have their own. I do not see it as blocking that
IS - Daniel Becker
01:48:23
not trying to speak for Palestinians but I’d assume that if there’s no siege or blockade on Gaza then there should be no fear of missiles
IS: Alon Nissan-Cohen
01:48:46
How does Gaza, which suffers continually by the hand of the IDF, maintain its security, with or without transportation of goods?
IS Len Bennett
01:48:59
Gaza is 30 miles from El Alamain which has a port and airport.
IS - Jack Risemberg
01:49:01
Chicken and the egg.
IS - Jack Risemberg
01:49:55
Here's an idea, why doesn't Egypt take governance of Gaza?
IS Len Bennett
01:50:20
In 2010, the UN stated the blockade is legal and necessary.
PA- Naseer
01:50:23
Really? Replace one occupation with another?
IS - Daniel Becker
01:51:11
because Gazans are Palestinian, not Egyptian
IS - Jack Risemberg
01:52:43
Then Israel might as well negotiate directly with various actual power players and not their proxies.
PA- SYED DANISH
01:53:21
Saudi arabia is the real sponsor of Hamas asctivities/.
PA- SYED DANISH
01:53:38
the King knows nothing about the policy for Muslim PA
Marc Lebret
01:54:12
France would act alone, without German or European support? Sadly I am not sure about sure this (Marc, French)
PA-Caryn Graves
01:54:12
Saudi Arabia is Hamas's sponsor?? What about Iran (and Qatar)...?
PA- SYED DANISH
01:54:34
Iran is totally on the others side
IS Len Bennett
01:54:41
Israel is the world leader in water desalination and recycling. There is no way Israel will give this to IPC.
Eduard Strack PA
01:54:48
Assuming the situation is the way it is right now, I would support the zone . Assuming there are separate entities already , I don't because it takes away from Gaza's sovernity
IS - Jack Risemberg
01:54:49
Qatar is hosting the World Cup, we have to be nice. And, Iran is Shia.
PA- SYED DANISH
01:55:01
iran is an enemy to Saudi policies due to religious understandings
jill davis
01:55:02
Saudi has an underground relationship with Israel, but they also do send money to help Palestinians.
Julieanna Thompson
01:55:03
COULD THE CONFEDERATION MOVE FROM ASSUMPTIONS NOT RELATED TO ACTUAL REALITY TODAY - TO ADDRESSING ALL THE ACTUAL PROBLEMS EXISTING TODAY IN THE REGION? The positive plans that this Confederation presents will not actually come about without the problematic barriers being resolved: so, can the IPC actually address all the key problems, e.g., Occupation,illegal Settlements, "Apartheid", inner and outer prejudices, Equity, violence, and encouraging Mediations from the Grassroots up (supported by the so-called governments). Presenting your glowing/positive ideas could help motivate problem-solving within all governing bodies, in actuality. AND, your IPC could present solutions (and results re by voting/passing your legislation) to the PROBLEMS/BARRIERS.
PA- SYED DANISH
01:55:33
Davis Agreed
hamza PA
01:56:29
I suggest to hear more from MR. Chomsky
Gill Levy
01:56:45
Peace everyone. I wish you all the best.
Bernice Zohn IS
01:57:12
I really hope that the IPC can become a reality. Unfortunately at this time, I have to leave. Thanks so much.
PA- SYED DANISH
01:58:21
China's policy is again chalengeable
CHINA Amy Leserman
01:58:54
Hi there -- CHINA has to go unpack groceries, sorry. China is not interested in participating, as we have valuable trade with Israel, which also supports public relations. I honestly do not believe China would see no advantage in this.
IS/PA: Todd
01:58:57
what about world peace?
CHINA Amy Leserman
01:59:49
Hi Todd -- These areas are tiny. As CHINA, I find that the squabble effectively distracts the world from my own human rights violations.
CHINA Amy Leserman
02:01:04
Squabbles in Israel and the Territories keep the loud liberals in the US and Europe busy, as useful idiots to distract from my environmental violations, and also violations against human rights.
IS/PA: Todd
02:01:06
Yes, very complicated the issues are.
IS/PA: Todd
02:01:38
We will get there!
PA- Naseer
02:02:44
We do not know why he left?
PA- Naseer
02:03:04
No reason to assume he left because he disagreed with something
Eduard Strack PA
02:04:06
This is a good attempt, but it is assuming too much , and we don't seem to be clear what is being assumed
hamza PA
02:08:38
good night everybody, I have to go
Jay Heyman
02:09:04
how does one ask a question or make a comment, raise a hand?
Eduard Strack PA
02:09:15
This idea would put another layer on top of the existing governments , tying oneself to the world bank is no good and granting veto power is no good .
Charlotte Samuels
02:15:44
I agree with the point that Eduard Strack made.
PA Niso niso
02:16:03
I really liked the idea of us( PA/ IS) arehaving this peaceful political experiment
IS - Jack Risemberg
02:17:17
I don't think any party would agree without a veto. Which does make it somewhat futile, but less futile than if it never happened.
IS: Alon Nissan-Cohen
02:18:08
Workers of the world, unite!
PA- SYED DANISH
02:19:48
We need someone from the Military industrial complex INC also to represent Neo Liberal Imperialist Capitalist. Without money making contractors forming a confederation will not work
IS - Daniel Becker
02:21:54
that’s not what Chomsky was saying
Charlotte Samuels
02:22:01
Let's remember that Israel gets more than 3B/ year
PA- Naseer
02:22:13
Yes, that is really NOT what he said
PA - Caroline Salinger, UK
02:22:31
Len, I don't think you can read Chomsky's mind! And you shouldn't assume you know what someone else is thinking. He might have had an internet issue. Who knows?
IS: Alon Nissan-Cohen
02:22:37
I think the reason Chomsky left is exactly the condescending attitude towards a distinguished guest expressed in Len's disrespectful comment...
PA- Naseer
02:23:15
He said their rule over the West Bank was Internationally recognized, therefore illegitimate.
IS - Daniel Becker
02:23:20
he said that the international community doesn’t recognize the illegal settlements and that the Palestinian government doesn’t exist - both are facts
Charlotte Samuels
02:23:24
Excactly. Let's not assume that Mr. Chomsky left on purpose. It may have been an internet issue. This event should be about understanding each other.
IS/PA: Todd
02:23:24
not give away but invest
Eduard Strack PA
02:24:49
Israel has build it up on top of Palestinian's lives , that's why Israel has more and without US help Israel would not be where it is today
Charlotte Samuels
02:25:06
I agree with, Eduard Strack
IS: Alon Nissan-Cohen
02:25:09
Charlotte and Caroline, I accept what you say about us not being able to read Chomsky's mind, but I stand by my ctiricism that the comment made by Len is disrespectful, and also Avesar's arguments with him were disrespectful
PA- Naseer
02:26:32
With US financial backing and Loan forgiveness/guarantees, Israeli economy would suffer. I would not call this a economic power house
Charlotte Samuels
02:26:46
I agree that Len's comment about Mr. Chomsky was disrespectful. I did not follow Avesar's arguments because I wasn't looking at the zoom.
PA- Naseer
02:26:47
Without, I mean
emanuel shahaf PM IS
02:26:59
There was nothing disrespectful about what Chomsky said
PA- Naseer
02:27:14
100%
IS: Alon Nissan-Cohen
02:27:46
What Chomsky was saying in my opinion were merely statements of facts, as you would expect from a scientists and a man of reason
Charlotte Samuels
02:28:06
I agree with Alon.
IS - Daniel Becker
02:28:07
I agree with Alon
Eduard Strack PA
02:29:36
If we all don't come together as a people , we're toast , and if Israel's politics keep on going the way it is , it will eventually selfdistract as a country
Charlotte Samuels
02:30:44
Some would say that the UN is legitimatizing Israel
PA-Anna
02:32:28
I gotta go. Thank you for this evening. :)
IS: Alon Nissan-Cohen
02:32:31
Perhaps in effect the UN is legitimizing Israel, but making having a legitimizing effect and making the statement that they're legitimate a basic part of the constitution is two different things
IS: Alon Nissan-Cohen
02:33:57
sorry for my grammatical mistakes, my brain is exhausted after this long meeting. I hope my point was clear :)
Charlotte Samuels
02:35:19
desalinization is harmful for the environment
Eduard Strack PA
02:35:56
Thank you for this . Whatever opinion we have , at least we're talking
PA- Naseer
02:36:21
Thank for your participation everyone! I will see you next time.
IS - Daniel Becker
02:36:31
what is the United teaches of Los Angeles decision?