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ACGR National Meeting November 2021 - Shared screen with speaker view
Wendy Wright (Federation)
39:03
REspect
Amanda Davis
39:04
respect
Fiona Zammit
39:04
Respect
Rachel Spronken-Smith
39:05
belonging
Andrew Kerslake (QUT)
39:07
expectations
Penny Martens
39:08
supportive
Stacey Parker
39:08
Support
Dan Bendrups (La Trobe)
39:10
support
Helen Klaebe
39:10
respect
Kirsten Farrell (she/her) Ngunnawal Country
39:10
collaboration
Honglin Chen
39:11
respective
Anne-Marie Hede
39:11
Vibrancy
Belinda Bern (UQ)
39:11
inclusive
Simon Moss CDU
39:13
Humility
Charlotte Brownlow
39:13
Belonging
Honglin Chen
39:13
trust
Sharon Ricardo
39:13
Communication
Rose Lucas
39:14
inspiration
Ann Evans, ANU
39:21
support
Georgie Kelly - Swinburne
39:22
respect
Jo Edmondston
39:22
understanding
Vada Ng (ECU)
39:25
communication
Stephan Riek (USC)
39:26
supportive
Alastair McEwan UQ
39:33
Solidarity
Shalini Lata - UNDA
39:34
communication
Rose Lucas
39:35
network
Charlotte Ferrier
39:35
supportive
math0038
40:21
collaboration
Fiona Zammit
40:41
My husband is playing his electric guitar Justin - noise everywhere ;-)
Susan Kinnear
41:13
Thanks for the responses all. And I'm impressed that everyone stuck to the word count!
Denise Cuthbert
41:33
Victorian colleagues might be aware that changes to WorkSafe legislation which come into effect next year place a high emphasis on psycho-social safety. With obligations on employees to ensure workplaces free of bullying, harassment, coercion etc. This is part of a move to place such obligations to prevent harm,
Jeremiah Peiffer
42:48
It is always good until it is not.....
Susan Kinnear
51:53
Please drop questions/comments for Justin & Jonathon into the chat
Georgie Kelly - Swinburne
55:47
Has anyone got an independent ambassador/ombudsman in place? I'd be interested to know more about this role
Chris Abbiss (ECU)
56:01
Do UNSW or UoM have options for confidential comments from students or supervisors to Dean GR (or elsewhere) within their HDR progress reporting or other milestones?
Rachel Spronken-Smith
56:04
Other strategies to help mitigate issues early on might be having an independent chair for progress meetings who checks in with candidate and supervisors separately before formal meeting (possible avenue to raise issues); confidential comments option in online progress reporting system to send a message to the dean
Denise Cuthbert
56:14
Surely another screening process which needs to be undertaken is the screening of supervisors for established patterns of unacceptable behaviour. There is some correlation between research stars and hi-cites and bullying, crushing and unrealistic work schedules etc.
Simon Moss CDU
56:48
Have any universities developed effective policies and procedures on how respond to circumstances in which many candidates complain informally about the same supervisor? Informal complaints from many candidates are usually more compelling than a formal complaint from one candidate—but harder to manage within existing policies and procedures.
Georgie Kelly - Swinburne
57:08
A confidential comment mechanism would be interesting. My HDR students have asked if we could set something like this up
Jeremiah Peiffer
57:31
We have considered the data base of 'problem' supervisors but have been warned that their could be some issues with HR and EBA issues with such a document.
Rose Lucas VU
57:33
Thanks. Re the difficulty of in-house vs formal processes: The challenge of identifying/articulating these issues without escalating unnecessarily - ie how to find the most productive outcomes for all parties rather than being merely confrontational/exposing. Cascading processes that allow for that kind of shading of issues important.
Amanda Davis
57:38
Yes, UoM has a Chair of every supervision panel, and the candidate meets 1:1 with the panel chair at least at every progress review to raise confidential issues
Neil Dodgson (Wellington, NZ)
58:25
With regard to bullying, this is an issue well-discussed in HR circles. There are solutions but there are no easy solutions.
Peter Terry (USQ)
01:00:12
USQ does have a confidential reporting line and an internal ombudsperson. Not sure either have reduced the number of supervisor-supervisee conflicts.
Susan Kinnear
01:01:01
We have confidential reporting as part of the progress report, but it isn't on the report itself - it's a separate link that takes the student to a different area. This is because candidates honestly don't believe that anything 'confidential' in their progress report won't be seen by their supervisor. Sexual conduct issues are handled separately again.
Georgie Kelly - Swinburne
01:02:10
That's interesting Susan. We have the same issue, only the panel chair sees the confidential comments but candidates are often uncomfortable writing anything down there
Christine Bruce
01:02:32
The intersection with HR and line management on appropriate conduct is criticalWith many processes in place for education/development/ prevention -poor performance becomes ultimately a line management issue if it escalates to that point…
Louise Sharpe (she/her)
01:02:49
We do have a confidential section at USYD in the progress reviews, but there are limits to confidentiality associated with duty of care to the student. But this is new this year, so it is unclear how much this was used. We are doing a review of our new progress review meetings early next year.
Denise Cuthbert
01:04:17
100% agree with Christine Bruce. Graduate Deans need to work with Deans and heads of school re management of poor supervision/poor supervisor conduct as performance and conduct issues.
Alastair McEwan UQ
01:05:13
@Denise - agree - we don’t line manage the academics
Stephan Riek (USC)
01:07:02
would be useful to have HDR supervision development and practice more explicitly address in annual performance appraisals of academic staff, rather then defaulting to numbers of students and completions etc.
Jeremiah Peiffer
01:07:45
@alastair. Yet, from the GRS side, we can set up policy and regulations that focus on supervision to give Us a bit more bite when it comes to poor supervision and this can be used in annual reviews with HDR supervisors and their line managers. Definitely not easy and not always effective....
Denise Cuthbert
01:08:17
@Stephan Riek….That is the key. We have done that at RMIT. making this performance visible to line managers, taking the lid of the black box.
Stephan Riek (USC)
01:09:44
@Denise Cuthbert - would like to see how you've done that!
Georgie Kelly - Swinburne
01:11:19
Agree. That sounds great Denise, very positive
Amanda Davis
01:11:54
The wellbeing survey we conducted in 2018, also showed a positive link with sense of belonging to the academic life of research group/ department
Denise Cuthbert
01:14:41
It is a matter of getting the relevant fields into the performance management instrument and being able to support with accurate data. We also have this in promotion criteria.
Christine Bruce
01:15:03
Great slides Stacey!
Denise Cuthbert
01:16:10
Yep -- terrific presentation and great findings!
Simon Moss CDU
01:19:25
Such a compelling presentation—really helps us adopt a more holistic, systems perspective to solve common issues
Georgie Kelly - Swinburne
01:19:45
Great project!
Christine Bruce
01:21:14
I’m hearing lots yesterday and now today about building peer networks and support - ways of supporting peer communities /ideas /models would be great
Christine Bruce
01:21:39
Collaborative research culture and how to build them is my number one question
Peter Terry (USQ)
01:21:50
Our Community of Practice for Research Supervisors has been running for about 6 years now and has been a great success
Rachel Spronken-Smith
01:22:12
some good ideas for peer groups in Buissink-Smith's article https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/07294360.2013.777034
Simon Moss CDU
01:22:48
Could you ask Stacey to discuss which of the variables in her model does she feel are the most modifiable. Sometimes, the levers of change are not the strongest determinants of outcomes but the variables we can change
Penny Martens (UNSW)
01:23:03
Hi Peter - I have tried to get our supervisor community of practice going - but so far, not a lot of success. Any tips for getting it going and people engaged?
Christine Bruce
01:23:08
Looking to get that model to translate to the life of the work of the suoervisors/team - so it becomes culture in the students world
Susan Kinnear
01:23:11
Collaboration is an interesting one - as researchers, we are told collaboration is key to grant success and publications, yet competitive behaviours can really destroy collaborative spirit
Belinda Bern (UQ)
01:24:24
We have just added a ‘Supervision & Researcher Dev’ dimension to academic staff appraisals here at UQ
Susan Kinnear
01:26:01
@Penny - our CoP meets monthly, one hour at lunchtime. PreCOVID, it included catering (academics love free lunch). We have two facilitators (not just one - they bounce off each other). We have a set topic each month. We also give a lucky door prize to one participant each month (bookshop voucher) to try and keep things light.
Honglin Chen
01:27:36
@Susan, that sounds like a great way to create a CoP. What is the uptake so far?
Sandra Savocchia - Charles Sturt
01:27:50
At CSU we have also introduced a supervision plan in our appraisal but don't have the actual data provided as Denise has mentioned. Would be great to have this!
Peter Terry (USQ)
01:28:07
Penny, the key was to recruit some energetic and willing champions from the faculties to run the COP-RS, to support their efforts with a bit of money (I sponsor the catering for meetings), and provide some public recognition of their efforts (certificates of appreciation and the odd small PD grant). I also give regular presentations to the group and involve them in decision-making.
Denise Cuthbert
01:28:13
We also need to stop promoting and rewarding people who engage in bad conduct but deliver $$ and other outcomes. The signalling is not helpful.
Rose Lucas VU
01:28:31
Great point Al - and that solidarity correlates with the broader sense of the collectivity and 'respectful conversations' of research in general. Supervision should be role-modelling this.
Susan Kinnear
01:28:59
@Honglin … The original CoP waxed and waned - we found it would keep tapering off if left to its own devices. It needs 'feeding' to keep the energy there. Currently we have 30-40 attendees (which is good for our small institution).
Penny Martens (UNSW)
01:29:52
Thanks Susan and Peter! Helpful. We started this as an online group (after doing our supervisor training). Maybe next year if we can have f2f events I can get this going!!!
Christine Bruce
01:30:22
Here we are reaching into the core issue of competing cultures - competitive and individualistic about achieving research KPIs versus developmental , collaborative which should actually lead to even better research outcomes
Alastair McEwan UQ
01:30:23
Ombudsperson often used in USA - be interesting to find out how effective
Honglin Chen
01:31:05
Thanks Susan. I would be happy with that attendance numbers!
Alastair McEwan UQ
01:31:43
Christine - agree - this is out core challenge - moving from individualistic (distributive) to a contributive culture
Esa Jaatinen - QUT
01:31:48
As evidenced by DORA we are moving into the realm where research performance is not measured by only metrics like impact factors but more about the quality of the research. So it seems natural that the 'quality of supervision' will be an obvious discussion element in the performance review of an academic instead of simply number of completions, etc. It is a conversation that is underway at QUT
Christine Bruce
01:32:04
If only us deans had full charge!
Wendy Wright (Federation)
01:33:30
We've run informal peer mentoring among supervisors very successfully. Lunchtimes sessions "Sandwiches and Supervision". We have run these face-face as a campus cohort and also online in discipline groups
Alastair McEwan UQ
01:33:41
Local is the approach that we are taking at UQ
Christine Bruce
01:33:53
Trying to work out the mediation between the competing culture is massive
Tracy Riley
01:34:09
We have established peer mentoring circles for supervisors which have had good uptake. We also have a programme for early career supervisors to help fast track into supervision in a scaffolded way which has a mentor supervisor component, as well as workshops and online meetings. The mentoring aspect got huge support from mentors and the ECR supervisors.
Dan Bendrups (La Trobe)
01:34:10
HI folks, I’m not a Dean but I am responsible for supervisor development for La Trobe. One thing we emphasise that hasn’t come up much here yet is to conceptualise supervision as a team effort, i.e.. moving away from the master-apprentice dyad, which still persists (or as a defect) in some corners.
Jeremiah Peiffer
01:34:39
One of the hardest things to change is the "I am successful and I was supervised like X, therefore I supervise like X and don't care what you say"
Dan Bendrups (La Trobe)
01:34:59
‘Team’ supervision then provides a context for peer mentoring on a small scale.
Tracy Riley
01:35:32
Our supervisor accreditation acknowledges mentor, main and co-supervisors - this has really worked well as some of our excellent supervisors who are “good citizens” engage a lot with others across the uni.
Rose Lucas VU
01:35:45
Jeremiah, I think this is also a product of the 'black box' of supervision - the more it's transparent the more we can all benchmark!
Denise Cuthbert
01:36:39
you might recall through the mists of time that the professionalisation of research supervision was one of the recommendations of the ACOLA review.....
Sarah Stow (RMIT)
01:37:33
I think one of the opportunities in this space is to work with People and Culture/HR units to drive the outcomes we want.
Christine Bruce
01:37:38
A National study on building collaborative research/research education culture ?
Tracy Riley
01:38:04
Can it be a transnational study? :)
Denise Cuthbert
01:38:19
Totally agree @Sarah Stow....we need alliances with HR and Deans!
Alastair McEwan UQ
01:38:27
I hope that NZ will be involved - would be great
Christine Bruce
01:39:06
At jcu we have been working on this for some time having struggles digging in so to speak. So advisor communities, yes, student peer groups yes, real research education collaborative networks with both advisors and students - tough stuff
Justin Zobel (unimelb)
01:39:06
It would depend on the number of ethics clearances needed!
Jonathan Morris UNSW
01:40:12
but in principle... having NZ involved would be good
Ann Evans, ANU
01:42:33
Hi Tracy
Christine Bruce
01:43:23
I’m wondering how many places have dedicated advisor/supervisor developers as jcu and la trobe have?
Denise Cuthbert
01:44:46
We have a dedicated resource at RMIT.
Susan Kinnear
01:44:53
@Christine, we attempted to introduce a third category of supervisors - mentor supervisors - who would help out with being a sounding board / rescue team for up-and-coming supervisors... but it hasn't really worked well. It's on my to do list for 2022.
Denise Cuthbert
01:45:30
@Susan...we tried that too...sunk like a stone! 😖
Stephan Riek (USC)
01:46:10
@Susan, we have a mentor supervisor category as well, but little guidance around what their role is - definitely more work to be done
Esa Jaatinen - QUT
01:46:38
@Susan. Same experience with regard to mentor supervisor - we found that there was no incetive apart from being a good citizen. We are revamping accreditation in 2022.
Susan Kinnear
01:47:15
can't imagine why senior supervisors didn't warm to the idea of getting involved with staff/candidatures that were a bit off the tracks ….!
Denise Cuthbert
03:04:22
History tells us that most Australian graduate schools evolved out of one or both of examination and admission (and scholarship award) functions.
Fiona Zammit
03:07:30
discuss the relative risks and associated mitigation strategy in delivering on the HES element of a;a. Highly Devolved structure and,b. Highly Centralised structure
Dan Bendrups (La Trobe)
03:23:06
Room 7 looked at induction. We noted that our institutions all have a shared approach tot his, with central and devolved elements. Risks to centralised induction include: not able to encompass discipline knowledge, health and safety risks, no induction into local area research culture. Risks of devolved induction include: inconsistency of policy/process interpretation, missing pieces, difficult to ascertain compliance with standards. Mitigation = shared approach with mechanisms for feedback (e.g. @ LTU: induction checklist).
Imelda Whelehan UWA
03:23:35
do add all comments here if you haven't been able to share thoughts
Belinda Bern (UQ)
03:24:48
Induction - balancing info everyone needs (central orientations help with this) with local differences and creating cohorts and research communities (local induction events are good for this - also info in a handbook important as a reference, thanks
Denise Cuthbert
03:24:58
I think an approach which privileges principles over structures is the way to go.
Jo Edmondston (UWA)
03:24:59
Our room discussed decentralised and shared models for addressing conflicts of interest in examination - and the risks born by students when examination is conflicted.
Alastair McEwan UQ
03:25:07
Agree - I ticked shared for that one!
Jen Webb (U Canberra)
03:26:08
Some of us are poets :-)
Rose Lucas VU
03:27:06
@ Belinda. In addition to the generic GR orientation, we also run different program inductions (eg Masters, PhD Integrated) - which really helps with detail as well as cohort formation.
Belinda Bern (UQ)
03:28:41
Interesting, thanks Rose
Peter Terry (USQ)
03:30:15
Al, I'm sure you're both respected AND liked!
Denise Cuthbert
03:33:17
totally agree with Al on partnering with Deans. the key lesson I have learned is you can do more by doing less (and getting others to do it for you).
Sharon Saunders (Griffith)
03:35:27
LOVE THE PIC!
Jen Webb (U Canberra)
03:36:01
What a deeply heartening talk, Al - thank you
Anne-Marie Hede
03:36:10
Thanks Al!
Rose Lucas VU
03:36:19
Great distillation of wisdom Al, thanks!
Sandra Savocchia
03:36:28
Wonderful, thanks for that insight!
Stephan Riek (USC)
03:36:29
Thanks Al, great reflection!
Susan Kinnear - CQUniversity
03:36:51
Well done Graeme!!!
Dan Bendrups (La Trobe)
03:42:42
You were a great Dean, Sue BP! Years ago, I remember you inviting me (as School HDR director) to address Board of GR about good practice in our School. This helped us to feel positive about our efforts to build research culture @ School level. Great leadership.
Belinda Bern (UQ)
03:43:23
It’s all about the team work! 🙂
Christine Bruce
03:44:01
😍
Sharon Saunders (Griffith)
03:44:56
🤝
Pat Buckley
03:45:06
Thanks Al and Sue - I’m in excellent company!
Neil Dodgson (Wellington, NZ)
03:45:21
😄
Jen Webb (U Canberra)
03:45:29
Thanks to both of you; the job suddenly feels much more possible, much more joyful
Anne-Marie Hede
03:45:30
So lovely to see and hear from you. Love your top tips!
Susan Kinnear - CQUniversity
03:45:30
🏆 well done Sue and thank you
Jen Webb (U Canberra)
03:45:38
DDOG with a bone
Susan Kinnear - CQUniversity
03:45:49
I thought the same, Jen! :)
Alastair McEwan UQ
03:46:20
Thanks Sue - you’re a wonderful colleague and have transformed HDR at GU
Sarah Stow (RMIT)
03:46:23
Thank you both Sue and Al.
Peter Terry (USQ)
03:46:39
🍩🍷 For you Sue - it's been a blast!
Denise Cuthbert
03:48:22
Was that test your thinking or your patience, Pat?
Yamini Sandiran - UTS
03:53:27
Thank you Pat, Al and Sue - brilliant as always
Liz Tynan
03:53:33
Wonderful talks - thanks Al, Sue and Pat
Jen Webb (U Canberra)
03:53:35
Wow. What a delight to hear all three of you. Thank you for this gift of your earned wisdom
Susan Kinnear - CQUniversity
03:53:45
wonderful - thank you
Christine Bruce
03:53:51
Al, Sue and Pat - such great affirmations of what’s vital
Georgie Kelly - Swinburne
03:53:54
Thank you all
Anne-Marie Hede
03:53:55
Thanks Pat. Always sage advice. Thank you.
Rose Lucas VU
03:53:57
So appreciated, thanks all.
Fiona Zammit
03:53:58
Such insightful reflections from all of you - thanks so much Al, Sue and Pat
Rachel Spronken-Smith - Otago
03:54:00
wonderful and helpful reflections from all - many thanks!. As an also outgoing dean (9 years) I would add in expect change!
Peter Terry (USQ)
03:54:17
Three mightily impressive role models, as always!
Michelle Lopez (Monash)
03:54:19
Thank you Pat, Al, Sue. A pleasure to have worked with you all.
Pat Buckley
03:55:04
Congratulations, Graeme!
Sharon Saunders (Griffith)
03:55:05
I'd like to know what was your more significant 'learning moment' Al, Pat and Sue
Ann Evans, ANU
03:55:09
Fantastic Al, Pat and Sue
Sharon Saunders (Griffith)
03:55:10
most
Jonathan Morris
03:55:14
well done to you all! I have always appreciated your support and wisdom
Simon Moss
03:55:20
Those talks were so inspiring and helpful—it’s s hard to reduce the complexity of this role into a few key pearls of wisdom—but somehow you all achieved that
Christine Bruce
03:56:01
Agreed graeme it is a distinctive feature
Christine Bruce
03:56:45
I’d like to know how our three sages maintained their grip on that when it’s less visible up and down!
Anne-Marie Hede
03:57:09
Thanks Graeme - all the best to you.
Sharon Saunders (Griffith)
03:57:50
I guessed that Sue!
Christine Bruce
04:03:34
Have I slip away- thanks for a fabulous two days all
Pat Buckley
04:04:20
Bye Christine
Helen Klaebe
04:04:34
Lovely to see you Christine -take care
Susan Kinnear - CQUniversity
04:06:07
Thank you Al
Fiona Zammit
04:06:13
Please do take a moment to complete the meeting feedback survey https://www.surveymonkey.com/r/KVPW6HB
Jen Webb (U Canberra)
04:06:47
Thank you! This role depends on all our other colleagues, and especially those who really do know how to hold it all together
Denise Cuthbert
04:09:27
Thanks Al, Sue and Pat for sharing your insights.
Sue Berners-Price
04:10:37
Thank you Al and all the best Imelda
Susan Kinnear - CQUniversity
04:10:47
Fiona is a star ! 🌟
Imelda Whelehan UWA
04:10:48
Fiona is wonderful!
Graeme Chatfield (ACTheology)
04:11:02
As always exceptional work from Fiona!
Peter Terry (USQ)
04:11:10
Al, best of luck in your new role. I'm gonna miss you.
Denise Cuthbert
04:11:11
Well said re work of FZ!
Rachel Spronken-Smith - Otago
04:11:36
Thanks all and especially the Exec!
Pat Buckley
04:11:41
Fiona - a real star and champion for research training
philipparker
04:11:51
Thank you all!
Sue Berners-Price
04:12:07
Bye everyone I will miss you all
Helen Klaebe
04:12:08
Thanks everyone- well done Fiona- and so good to see everyone again
Vada Ng (ECU)
04:12:09
Thank you all - have a great weekend!
Denise Cuthbert
04:12:09
Bye everyone! Stay safe!
Jen Webb (U Canberra)
04:12:16
Thanks to all!
Susan Kinnear - CQUniversity
04:12:17
take care all
Louise Sharpe (she/her) USYD
04:12:20
Thanks everyone
Chris Dunn (UTAS)
04:12:22
Thanks all
Sandra Savocchia
04:12:22
Wonderful meeting, thanks all!
Georgie Kelly - Swinburne
04:12:23
Thank you for a great meeting
Sarah Stow (RMIT)
04:12:24
Thank you all