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Strengthening the Enterprise Pipeline - Shared screen with speaker view
Catherine Brentnall
35:15
Hi Hazel, I just used #entedpipeline …. tagged in @eeuk too.
Catherine Brentnall
37:03
Amazing support from Phil, Gareth, Kate and all EEUK directors for bringing this event together :-)
Catherine Brentnall
38:01
If you can put Q at the beginning of the questions, that's helpful....
Catherine Brentnall
38:30
Also, put in comments, reactions, if that's what you want to share...
Kathryn Penaluna
41:10
Catherine you have been an inspirational champion of this agenda for so long -it is brilliant to have this event and the support of EEUK :-)
Catherine Brentnall
42:16
Ah, that means a lot Kath, and same to you and Andy, who have been supporting the schools piece for as long as I've been in it, and well before :-)
Jennifer Huntsley
43:32
Yes, completely agree Adrian, so glad we can discuss this! Enterprise skills underpinned by knowledge.
Kevan
44:24
Interestign that Govt has this view to Ent Ed School, when Govt also seems to be discourage youngpeople form going to, and getting a job instead. what is driving their thinking?
Catherine Brentnall
45:48
DfE knowledge rich curricula tied to reasonable ideas that achieving well in qualifications will support social mobility...
Chris Hiscocks
46:02
I taught at a few schools in York, and one in particular has an Enterprise module in their Citizenship class. Only brief, but a start!
Catherine Brentnall
46:33
It's just that focus has led to something of a rejection of 'skills' , see Daisy Christodoulu Seven Myths of Education etc...
Philip Clegg
47:31
Thanks for the comments already coming through all. If you have any direct questions for Adrian, please just start with a Q
andy
48:30
The latest stats on work opportunities suggest a rather bleak ‘employment’ environment, whereas the work itself isn’t going away.
Arif Zaman
49:00
Quite striking/revealing that OFSTED are using an approach to entrepreneurship from the Davies report (?)from the 1990s.
Jon Powell
49:04
Presume we will be able to get the slides @Kate?
Philip Clegg
49:19
Slides and recordings available afterwards Jon
Catherine Brentnall
49:30
Q: what is the impact on knowledge rich curricula on schools perception/activity around 'skills development'?
Jennifer Huntsley
49:41
'Matchsticks' example very relevant to primary schools too!
Sarah Preedy
49:54
Agreed, Arif. It seems outdated
Catherine Brentnall
50:25
The Davies report (2002) was a water shed, like our QAA... it defined what enterprise education is... if only it was referred to more, there would be more common conceptual ground.
Jennifer Huntsley
50:55
Q: Any suggestions about the sorts of things teachers/trainee teachers could be doing to make enterprise education more coherent?
adrian ashton
51:01
1990s/2002 - both still feel like only a couple of years ago...
Catherine Brentnall
51:05
We've had reports since, but they don't have the depth
Philip Clegg
51:15
Thanks Jen and Catherine. I have your questions
andy
51:18
Lots here in Wales Jenifer - started 2010
Arif Zaman
52:03
suggestion: could any on the call and EE-UK help to frame and formulate a short primer for schools in consultation with OFSTED?
Catherine Brentnall
53:24
A group of us met with Adrian in August to discuss something like this, one suggestion was that we talk to existing orgs and networks (like EEUK) to see if we could collaborate on something.
andy
54:24
In 2014 we suggested looking beyond UK… APPG Microbiz
Richard Tunstall
54:40
Is the full report available to download?
andy
54:56
On EEUK website
Catherine Brentnall
55:20
Richard, from memory I put it on the resources section of the readyunlimited website :-)
Kathryn Penaluna
55:40
I’d echo the work in Rotherham with Catherine - Andy and I were privileged to have visited and still reference the experience
Catherine Brentnall
55:41
Cool!
Jon Powell
55:56
As a school governor (primary currently but 5 years as a secondary previously) so much is just left to the head and their priorities, and they have likely spent their entire career in teaching. So unless its an OFSTED expectation its hard for governors to challenge and steer a head towards prioritising something outside the core national curriculum and assessment areas....
Catherine Brentnall
55:56
<3 thanks!
andy
56:27
absolutely, Catherine and Charles for example - why do they have to seek outside funds?
Marcus Orlovsky
56:35
The work I've done with secondary school students (100,000 of them) and the indepth work (takes 4 days) mainly with PP or LAC at Yr 10/11 had led to 80% of participants gaining level 5 and above in GCSE maths, 92% English.
Matt Smith, CFE
58:22
For consideration over the day: the Commercial Education Trust has very recently commissioned independent researchers to conduct a review of commercial education across schools, colleges, universities and life-long learning. Their definition of commercial education covers 'business know-how' and 'behaviour - covering enterprise and entrepreneurship'. I'm on the advisory board alongside Jane Walton of FSB that many of us know. I've asked if they have terms of reference I can share with you all.
andy
58:47
Useful to know Matt
Marcus Orlovsky
58:49
Is not about students being 'taught' stuff they don;lt see the relevance, but genabling students to see where their future could be, the routes to success and where school fits inl. Real change happens after that. Challenge is that many/most teachers just don't get it: students learn when THEY want to....
Felicity Healey-Benson
59:55
hopefully the presentation later today making use of a common framework like entrecomp will help.... see EntreCompEdu and EntreComp
Jon Powell
01:01:00
Thanks Catherine...
andy
01:01:04
FYI to Jon - Headteacher development in Wales is one of my current jobs.
Catherine Brentnall
01:01:06
:-)
Kevan
01:01:06
What is driving govt thinking in less support for enterprise but also pushing more young people into work (not uni)?
Philip Clegg
01:01:23
Thanks Kevan
andy
01:01:33
Goof question Kevan
Jon Powell
01:01:40
I know Andy but I'm stuck in England.
andy
01:01:42
oooops - good ;-)
andy
01:02:24
Q Has EEUK got a potential role in suggesting frameworks?
Felicity Healey-Benson
01:03:13
@Adrian Agree on that point Adrian. I have used my governor role to grow the ent agenda in the school!
Catherine Brentnall
01:03:41
EEUK defo has a role :-)
Arif Zaman
01:03:44
Question: would OFSTED welcome a primer from EE-UK and its members on schools and enterprise to help reflect good practice and learnings since the 2002 Davies Report?
Marcus Orlovsky
01:03:52
Q are schools and their staff too distant from the 'real world' and too caught up in the way they are measured. P8, A8 are not relevant to the outside world....
Catherine Brentnall
01:04:24
Q: would you be able to work on it Adrian?
Catherine Brentnall
01:04:38
The primer I mean.
Kathryn Penaluna
01:04:47
Interesting conversation re the role of governors - exemplified in your engagement with our case study Felicity.
Catherine Brentnall
01:05:33
Agree, schools have their own real world, and it's very real...
Catherine Brentnall
01:06:27
'schools' are not homogenous, very mixed picture..
Lauren Davies
01:06:32
Agree Catherine
Jon Powell
01:06:36
Q - can anyone see a future where "performance" isn't driven by simple league tables and all the associated negative behaviours they drive...
Felicity Healey-Benson
01:06:45
the importance of someone championing this agenda on the school board is real key - in my experience
Catherine Brentnall
01:07:53
Thanks Adrian! :-)
Philip Clegg
01:08:34
If we can now think of questions/comments for Nicola. Please start with a Q
Catherine Brentnall
01:09:21
Amazing project Nicola.
andy
01:09:49
Q @Nicola is there potential to bring DfE and BEIS together to talk about this? I have tried as it has worked well in other countries.
Philip Clegg
01:10:12
Thanks Andy - I have it
Catherine Brentnall
01:10:14
Blackpool Hero , google it.
Catherine Brentnall
01:12:28
Link to the Gatsby Benchmarks, which underpin the CEC programme: https://www.careersandenterprise.co.uk/schools-colleges/gatsby-benchmarks
Catherine Brentnall
01:18:55
Jen and I have got a session about that later :-)
Hazel Squire
01:21:58
Do Universities have access to these programmes?
andy
01:22:03
Q How much do you look outside of England - to see what other countries are doing?
Jennifer Huntsley
01:22:18
Yes, completely agree Nicola that enterprise should be part of ITE - like the analogy with literacy to English
andy
01:22:57
After 10 years experience of teacher training I can say it has made a huge difference
Jon Powell
01:23:15
Q - brilliant if we can embed #ented into teaching and leader training, what about governor training? Who would be responsible for that?
Marcus Orlovsky
01:24:53
I look around the word through my TEDx work internationally and coach speakers globally. Makes one realise how much 'small world' thinking is often in UK education....
andy
01:25:39
I suggest that ‘feeding up’ is something to consider @Marcus
Felicity Healey-Benson
01:26:07
my experience of local gvt led governor training is quite poor - there should be a review of skills to offer
Arif Zaman
01:26:18
for 5 years I was Associate Director and in the founding team at Mosaic, part of the Prince of Wales Charities which does some outstanding work on enterprise in schools in disadvantaged areas and communities especially Muslim - they would have been a valuable stakeholder to have included today and certainly worth engaging in any follow up activity - https://www.princes-trust.org.uk/help-for-young-people/programmes/mosaic
Jennifer Huntsley
01:26:38
Q:I think that 'persuading' many teachers of the I'mportance of careers and enterprise is often met with a lack of understanding of 'what enterprise is' - what could we do to help teachers understand what it is?
Marcus Orlovsky
01:26:42
Q: In your opinion, are school making the most of the backgrounds of Governors, and seeking out those with the widest experiences, or wanting governors to be passive rubber stampers!
Jon Powell
01:27:57
Agree Felicity, lots of govn training on how to read the data which links to my previous point on leagues tables, again below:
Kevan
01:27:58
Q - are there any types or segments of school who are doing this better?
Catherine Brentnall
01:27:58
Agree with that Jen, they mostly talk about activities they do, but don't have that conceptual foundation about what it is, its purpose.
Jon Powell
01:28:03
Q - can anyone see a future where "performance" isn't driven by simple league tables and all the associated negative behaviours they drive...
Felicity Healey-Benson
01:28:06
@Marcus I think SOME schools don't want interfering ones but SOME also under estimate the power of skilled governors - its changing the culture
Jon Powell
01:30:02
Marcus some heads definitely want passive rubber stampers....they have an agenda and don't want to be challenged on it.
Catherine Brentnall
01:30:20
EEUK project a couple of years ago to look at this: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/319872913_Careers_and_Enterprise_through_the_Curriculum_-_guide_to_accompany_pedagogy_bench_marking_tool
Catherine Brentnall
01:30:36
Looking at careers and enterprise in the curriculum.
Felicity Healey-Benson
01:30:40
@jon . on same page for sure - there is some changing mindset work to do here ... especially in schools in poorer areas
andy
01:30:51
Part of the Head teachers’ training in Wales relates to creating value for external stakeholders.
Jennifer Huntsley
01:31:02
Thanks Nicola
Jo McEvoy
01:31:04
Agree it should be a core thread of ITT but disappointed that the new ITT core content framework does not promote this explicitly
Felicity Healey-Benson
01:31:06
thank you @Nicola -
Catherine Brentnall
01:31:09
Thanks Nicola! :-)
Clair Hameed
01:31:12
Thank you Nicola
andy
01:31:19
Thank you ;-)
Kathryn Penaluna
01:32:12
Thank you Nicola and a belated thanks to Adrian too .. very informative.
Adrian Lyons
01:32:14
sorry - I have been skimming down the chat and this is a response to Marcus re conflict between skills and qualifications. There is a lot of evidence to suggest that work related education supports better academic outcomes in Y11 and this needs better dissemination as it may be counter-intuitive to some school leaders.
Philip Clegg
01:32:40
Questions for Catherine now please. Thanks so much for all of your contributions, comments and questions so far.
andy
01:32:42
Thanks Adrian - good to know ;-)
Nicola Hall
01:33:15
Through this https://resources.careersandenterprise.co.uk site we provide schools and colleges with tools, training and resources to shape their offers in this area. We
Nicola Hall
01:34:12
We are always seeking more high quality resources to further this support and enable more teachers to develop their subject offers
andy
01:34:52
Q @Catherine. When undertook a review for you it became clear that creativity (thus innovative capacity) declined significantly in later you schooling. Does the current agenda still dissuade development in this area?
Philip Clegg
01:35:57
Thanks Andy
Adrian Lyons
01:37:45
Andy - creativity squeezed out as pupils are drilled for GCSE is a real problem and part of the Sept 2019 Ofsted framework is trying to get schools to teach the curriculum rather than drill for exams.
Adrian Lyons
01:38:20
The research on work related learning leading to better academic outcomes at Y11 is summaries at https://www.educationandemployers.org/research-main/key-findings-from-our-research/
Adrian Lyons
01:40:22
Absolutely agree with Catherine about competitions being a quick fix - all comes from not thinking about the learning and the pedagogy.
Marcus Orlovsky
01:41:25
Some of the most interesting students I've worked with are LAC, excluded, travellers, etc - all with amazing 'savvy' but too often totally disengaged with teachers and schools, who tend to demand compliance.
andy
01:41:26
‘Star’ alumni in our Uni research also put our students off. But it was assumed they would be the motivators. This distance travelled should be more ‘connectable’ in our view.
Jan Brown
01:46:10
Definitely agree with the need for young people to be heard and belong!
Felicity Healey-Benson
01:46:32
excellent work @Catherine
Arif Zaman
01:46:50
check out this great initiative in which Bloomsbury Institute has been involved with schools across the Commonwealth with other stakeholders: Commonwealth Creativity & Innovation Challenge: https://hazu.swiss/flowinaction/cbwngallery
andy
01:46:58
Q @ Catherine - to pick up / follow on from earlier question. You only mentioned criticality, what about synthesis?
Chris Hiscocks
01:47:51
Thanks for that - I definitely feel the competition style default is not a good way to engage students in enterprise - after all, it’s more about collaboration and sharing than competing in secret
Nicola Hall
01:48:31
Very interesting piece of work and I can draw real parallels with young people's behaviour, interaction and impact of certain types of activities
Gareth Trainer
01:48:54
Absolutely right!!!
andy
01:48:56
Thanks - lots to support you there
Adrian Lyons
01:49:23
The 2016 Ofsted report which I mentioned in my presentation has a title which illustrates the mix between enterprise and prep for work https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/enterprise-education-how-secondary-schools-prepare-young-people-for-work
Jo McEvoy
01:49:35
I agree with you on the nuanced approach, Catherine. Teachers knowing their children well and adapting what they offer/teach to support the less competitive children is so refreshing!
Adrian Lyons
01:50:16
Not a competition basher Catherine, but in most areas of the curriculum we do not rely solely on one approach
andy
01:50:37
Q The research on emotions support you - as is well understood and used in the arts. Was Sir Ken right that we need to look at the art?
andy
01:51:02
thanks
Marcus Orlovsky
01:53:25
Q: a friend of mine, who was head of design at Singularity University, now CTO Microsoft, feel (both tech heavy) that the Arts is critical in developing creativity...thoughts?
Felicity Healey-Benson
01:53:27
interesting what our needs are for our schools when our budgets are being slashed ... and the latter has happened across both types of gvt in case you suggest that it is a political party comment - our schools needs better budgets...
andy
01:53:57
Think differently about the science and the art of being enterprising ;-)
Andy Callard
01:54:00
Q: If the world is to 'build back better', should we as educators be preparing young people to collaborate to solve problems, rather than to compete, in any case? (great pres as always Catherine)
Felicity Healey-Benson
01:55:07
but our assessments are still focused on individual outputs...
Felicity Healey-Benson
01:55:39
in HE
Kathryn Penaluna
01:56:02
Thanks Catherine - as always making us think!
Jennifer Huntsley
01:56:12
Thanks Catherine!
andy
01:56:15
Thank yoooo ;-)
Claire Hughes
01:56:20
Thanks Catherine - very interesting.
Nicola Hall
01:56:21
The development of interdisciplinary learning e.g London interdisciplinary school at UCL backs up the collaboration piece well
Catherine Brentnall
01:56:23
Thank you for having me! :-)
Rachel Fell
01:56:34
social enterprise - it is being embedded much more widely and increasingly throughout HEI's, would be good to start to see this happen too in schools
Catherine Brentnall
01:57:21
Amazing time keeping this morning :-)
Adrian Lyons
02:11:15
Rachel - I love it when I come across social enterprise in school and I think it is increasingly common. It allows for better contextualisation of enterprise activity so that it is less a one off activity and has some meaning. I think schools are more open to it than the traditional money making competition format
Nicola Hall
02:11:16
@Rachel we launched a Youth Social Action Toolkit earlier this year to support stimulation of this activity in schools
Claire Hughes
02:37:10
Thanks to Andy in our breakout room - some useful insights!
Jo McEvoy
02:47:31
I have to leave now, but just want to say thank you for an inspirational morning
Catherine Brentnall
02:47:42
Thanks for coming Jo!
Claire Hughes
02:48:56
Thank you everyone for a great workshop - really good insights that I will definitely be reflecting on. I need to leave, but thanks again.
andy
02:49:05
Q Should England push the business and education ministries towards a conversation? Lord Young and others have failed, can EEUK lobby on behalf of our colleagues… and all our learners?
Catherine Brentnall
02:49:07
Thanks for coming Claire!
Arif Zaman
02:49:43
there is an elephant in the room today - how are we learning from and linking into international good practice tapping the Commonwealth where there is much to draw upon with many willing to share and support (networks, toolkits, policy interventions, etc) especially given that 60% of the 1 in 3 people on the planet from the Commonwealth are under 30? FYI, the UK is the current Commonwealth Chair so will raise this with UK Govt. contacts in this area and EE-UK.
Catherine Brentnall
02:50:10
That would be amazing Andy, all conversation is good... Is there someone in the Tim Dafforn role? (think he left?)
andy
02:50:47
We failed too - one reason why Tim left his role I suspect
Liz
02:50:56
I need to head off, but this has been a fantastic morning and given me lots of food for thought. Thank you
Catherine Brentnall
02:51:07
Thanks for coming Liz!
Jon Powell
02:52:06
This can be driven by our EEUK members and EEUK will support this.
Catherine Brentnall
02:52:20
Yes, brilliant Jon!
John Barker
02:53:34
Links into widening participation and future recruitment with learners from secondary education is the route to link the two spheres together. WP and future recruitment for Unis and Schools/Colleges are strategically supported by both parties.
Lauren Davies
02:53:54
Agree John
Catherine Brentnall
02:54:15
Yes!
Jon Powell
02:54:20
And then as you say Andy we can support from a lobbying perspective.
Catherine Brentnall
02:54:26
Been working on this...so much crossover: https://www.researchgate.net/publication/341654238_Confidence_Cooperation_Putting_Possible_Selves_and_Cooperative_Learning_to_work_to_build_Confidence_and_Resilience
Catherine Brentnall
02:54:54
WP policy talks about connecting WP with careers and enterprise...
Kathryn Penaluna
02:55:56
Nicola is so right - not the bolt on we often see
Catherine Brentnall
02:56:20
100% yes to everything :-)
Jennifer Huntsley
02:56:28
Yes, completely agree Kathryn and Nicola
Catherine Brentnall
02:57:16
Brilliant!
Kate Beresford
02:57:17
https://www.surveymonkey.co.uk/r/EEUKOct22Post
Gareth Trainer
02:57:27
We are going to do whatever we can to support this work and to influence positive change! For sure!!!
Felicity Healey-Benson
02:57:29
Thank you for the opportunity to share and listen in to you all
Adrian Lyons
02:57:39
I completely agree with Nicola. At a policy level skills pre 16 are not regarded positively - although post 16 they are. The history of the last decade has been too many dead ends Andy e.g. Lord Young
Jake Ellis
02:57:41
Thanks all!
Gareth Trainer
02:57:46
Good work everyone!!!!
Jan Brown
02:57:50
Such important work! Thank you!
Catherine Brentnall
02:57:54
Yes, agree!
Kathryn Penaluna
02:57:56
As always a brilliant event - thank you to all!
Mike N
02:58:01
Thanks for all the input from everyone... really good!!
Haleh Moravej
02:58:11
Thank you everyone. This was my third ever EE UK event
Lauren Davies
02:58:12
Thank you to everyone - great discussions this morning on a really important topic!
andy
02:58:15
@adrian - yes, plenty pre 2012 to draw upon ;-)
Haleh Moravej
02:58:21
it gets better and better! :)
Catherine Brentnall
02:58:22
Thanks all for coming, really brilliant session.
John Barker
02:58:28
Thanks to all the speakers. Really interesting.
Gareth Trainer
02:58:36
Many thanks to you and Catherine too Phil!
Stephanie Harding
02:58:37
Thank you
Arif Zaman
02:58:38
great event and very relevant and stimulating
andy
02:58:39
Big thanks - ;-)
Catherine Brentnall
02:58:45
:-)