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Secure Data Storage - WG - Shared screen with speaker view
Dmitri Zagidulin
03:44
https://hackmd.io/_zkg-XoVTymy28i2_P982A
tobiaslooker
04:34
Nopr
tobiaslooker
04:37
*Nope
Dmitri Zagidulin
05:46
https://hackmd.io/_zkg-XoVTymy28i2_P982A
tobiaslooker
07:14
I will take note of attendees locally and update the hackmd
Daniel Buchner
09:46
Hubs for the Hub God
tobiaslooker
09:57
I’ve just pinged him
Dmitri Zagidulin
12:13
+1 to list app on hub/edv! :)
Orie Steele (Transmute)
14:08
Sorry I’m late guys
Daniel Buchner
16:18
I'd say it's more like a standardized version of Firebase
Dmitri Zagidulin
16:31
q+ to add to that topic
Andreas Freund
16:39
q+
Adrian Gropper
17:07
https://github.com/decentralized-identity/secure-data-store/issues/97#issuecomment-722470095
Dmitri Zagidulin
17:57
q-, Andreas is up next on the queue.
Dmitri Zagidulin
18:58
(+1 to what Daniel is saying, re Hub is like Dropbox + Firebase)
Dmitri Zagidulin
19:31
yes! +1 to Bring Your Own federated/distributed storage!
Daniel Buchner
19:42
Your tweets should live in your Hubs
Daniel Buchner
20:00
Your publicly shared Instagram photos should just live in your Hubs
Daniel Buchner
20:32
Your private convos from Telegram, Signal, etc. should all just be messages relayed between and stored in user Hubs
Daniel Buchner
21:19
The eventual goal is that apps move to using your Hub as the backend for its storage and retained user data activities
Orie Steele (Transmute)
21:21
q+
Dmitri Zagidulin
21:36
‘gold button’? :) oh nooo, more names!
Juan Caballero
23:13
https://medium.com/decentralized-identity/rhythm-and-melody-how-hubs-and-agents-rock-together-ac2dd6bf8cf4
Juan Caballero
23:15
rock on, orie
Daniel Buchner
23:34
q+
Juan Caballero
23:56
personal assistant/personal agent also bouncing around a lot in Europe lately (particularly in response to this week's leak of the forthcoming Data Governance Act)
Dave Longley
23:57
In my view: An "agent" uses an EDV client to connect to N EDV servers to store/retrieve encrypted documents/streams of data. A "hub" would be/provide an agent that enabled all the things Daniel was talking about.
Adrian Gropper
24:16
I mis-spoke: s/Wayne/Chris
Andreas Freund
24:25
+1 to Orie
Dave Longley
24:26
Through a common/standardized interface with a common data model for the items he's talking about.
Daniel Buchner
24:32
I think it's important to clear separate the authority of Hubs and Agents
Daniel Buchner
24:41
Hubs are powerless, Agents are powerful
Dave Longley
24:56
+1 to hearing more about the interfaces
Dave Longley
26:01
would love to hear about hubs interfaces and data model -- and making the scope limited and clear.
Dmitri Zagidulin
26:37
queue: Daniel, Adrian.
Dave Longley
26:52
+1 to Orie w/database and filesystem comparison
Dmitri Zagidulin
27:17
oh interesting! (re Hubs just dealing with public-is data)
Dmitri Zagidulin
27:56
q: Adrian, Dave.
Orie Steele (Transmute)
28:01
Wondering why Hubs care about “data encrypted only to me"
Adrian Gropper
28:15
Very interesting! I use Directory for the non-confidential storage (may still have access control)
Orie Steele (Transmute)
28:17
And how that differs in INTERFACE from edvs
Michael Shea
28:28
Jarvis
Orie Steele (Transmute)
28:57
The Hub is “Tony Stark Magic DataBaseCluster”… Javis just uses it
Dmitri Zagidulin
29:04
lol
Andreas Freund
29:11
Hub lets Jarvis speak with Jarvina
Andreas Freund
29:28
on common data
Orie Steele (Transmute)
30:03
Yes, hubs are almost like secure activity pub
Daniel Buchner
30:14
An agent is probably just an 'app' that doesn't have any UI and ask for privileges to access data a Hub holds, which it can retrieve, decrypt and do things with.
Orie Steele (Transmute)
30:14
Hubs wish activity pub was better
Dmitri Zagidulin
30:23
ouch
Daniel Buchner
30:25
Yes
Daniel Buchner
30:34
ActivityPubs can't take out Firebase
Daniel Buchner
30:38
I want to take out Firebase
Orie Steele (Transmute)
30:59
q+
tobiaslooker
31:27
+1 to file system db analogy
Dmitri Zagidulin
32:32
q+ to ask about the relationship of Authorization Server to Hub
Dmitri Zagidulin
33:05
q: Dmitri, Daniel
Daniel Buchner
33:18
Important point to make about sending messages: Hubs would always be your target of messages, and Agents will subscribe to Hubs
Dmitri Zagidulin
33:38
q-.
Daniel Buchner
33:42
Agents ask you through your Hub to get a subscription to the scope of objects they are going to act in Agency over
Dmitri Zagidulin
33:42
q is: Daniel
Dmitri Zagidulin
33:56
q: Adrian.
Dave Longley
34:37
oooh, Special Agents.
Orie Steele (Transmute)
34:40
q+ to talk about interfaces
Dmitri Zagidulin
34:42
q+ to ask about next steps (in terms of integrating Hubs into the EDV spec
Dmitri Zagidulin
34:55
q: Adrian, Orie, Dmitri
Orie Steele (Transmute)
36:19
You might have all 3
Orie Steele (Transmute)
36:21
yes
Daniel Buchner
37:22
Want to talk about Hub interfaces as Dave asked
Dmitri Zagidulin
37:31
q: Dmitri, Daniel
Dmitri Zagidulin
37:52
(Daniel - I assume that was a request to go on queue :) )
Daniel Buchner
38:08
will do orie
Dmitri Zagidulin
38:27
or WebSub!
Dmitri Zagidulin
38:38
https://www.w3.org/TR/websub/
Andreas Freund
38:54
most are hybrids
Adrian Gropper
40:12
Service Bus = Mediator?
Daniel Buchner
40:34
Your phone has a Hub in it too
Daniel Buchner
40:43
they both sync when you get out of the tunnel
Daniel Buchner
41:07
Hubs are your personal array of replicated personal app datastores
Dmitri Zagidulin
41:18
ooooh, that’s a great phrasing
Dave Longley
41:19
something to consider: inverting how many messages work today where we push data into someone's else's storage ... such that instead we merely ping someone else and tell them to come get messages from our storage
Dave Longley
41:22
as this reduces SPAM
Dmitri Zagidulin
41:25
Daniel - you should add that to the spec :)
Adrian Gropper
41:47
Orie is losing me because he’s not talking in terms of Service Endpoints.
Dmitri Zagidulin
41:49
+1 Dave. it’s gotta be both (Push & Pull)
Orie Steele (Transmute)
42:38
Service Endpoints are like MX records in DNS
Orie Steele (Transmute)
42:47
Hubs and EDVs are like mail servers
Daniel Buchner
43:11
Did we ever list the interfaces for dave?
Dave Longley
43:15
nope :)
Dmitri Zagidulin
44:12
(Profile - sounds like there’s intersection there with the Universal Wallet Spec’s Profiles.)
Orie Steele (Transmute)
44:27
maybe
Dave Longley
44:40
(i would think universal wallet specs/similar data modeling would be needed for all of these)
Dmitri Zagidulin
44:49
+1
Juan Caballero
45:13
music licensing lawyers love it too
Orie Steele (Transmute)
45:17
In the sense that UW spec supports JSON objects that are related to DIDs
Orie Steele (Transmute)
45:19
yes
Juan Caballero
45:29
they have the same problem getting their royalties from either app
Dave Longley
45:36
what's being described right now is: 1. common data model/syntax, 2. common API for getting it/updating it
Dave Longley
45:47
3. common authz
Michael Shea
45:59
if you think what we are discussing is difficult, try understanding music licensing….
Dmitri Zagidulin
46:05
lol
Dave Longley
46:07
so i heard this: 1. profile, 2. permission request, 3. actions, 4. collections (common data model/syntax, API for get/update, and common authz)
Daniel Buchner
46:20
5. Stores
Adrian Gropper
46:23
Structured scopes are domain specific.
Dave Longley
46:35
thanks, Daniel
Daniel Buchner
46:43
(5: is basically window.localStorage, but roamed around and encrypted)
Adrian Gropper
47:46
hat’s what I’m calling structured scopes
Dave Longley
51:28
+1 for leaving what we have today
Dmitri Zagidulin
53:02
+1 (EDVs - random IDs, Hubs - CIDs)
Daniel Buchner
56:36
Hubs would like to see those all as blobs that are CID'd
Daniel Buchner
56:49
even though they may have different relationships to each other