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BDC Presents: Towards an Accessible Financing Solution - Shared screen with speaker view
Chris Carrick
36:39
how specific is the analysis and recommendation set to California? Would they be applicable to New York?
Cooper Marcus
37:32
could you post the whitepaper url here?
Tanya Barham
37:38
Sorry just joining. Link to white paper on BDC portal?
Panama Bartholomy
38:08
Welcome everyone! Excited to release the White paper today and that you are here for the webinar!
Panama Bartholomy
38:47
here is the white paper: http://www.buildingdecarb.org/uploads/3/0/7/3/30734489/bdc_whitepaper_final_small.pdf
Panama Bartholomy
39:38
Chris: the approach is very much possible for New York as well. We address some CA-specific issues with implementation but the overall approach and details are completely adaptable.
Greg Hale
42:14
Greg from NYSERDA here: yes we will be examining INclusive Financing as a potential financing mechanism in NY as part of our Carbon Neutral Buildings Roadmap
Panama Bartholomy
43:18
Yeah, Greg!
Panama Bartholomy
47:27
The three different scenarios
Kevin Carroll
54:29
Let’s not forget DC!!
Panama Bartholomy
55:05
51st State! And a Clean Energy Leader!
Panama Bartholomy
01:02:02
We love E3!
Panama Bartholomy
01:02:35
here is the seminal E3 report that Holmes just referenced: https://www.ethree.com/e3-quantifies-the-consumer-and-emissions-impacts-of-electrifying-california-homes/
Brian Stewart
01:03:03
What is the capital return on investment percentage that the utilities get for their capital?
Tanya Barham
01:04:15
I learned about this model which is already operating with non-utility private capital in NY for the financing but the transaction is - I believe - on bill. Any idea how it fits into this solution set? https://sealed.com/
Tanya Barham
01:04:18
Thanks!
Joanna Nelson
01:04:24
This is really exciting work. Thank you!
Tanya Barham
01:04:37
+1 Joanna
Tanya Barham
01:05:36
How, also, do PACE and CPACE relate to this financing model?
Gregory Sherman
01:05:47
I have the same question about PACE.
Kevin Carroll
01:06:06
Thanks Holmes (and fellow team members.) Great presentation and great work!
Panama Bartholomy
01:06:37
POUs are Publicly Owned Utilities
Gregory Sherman
01:06:56
How does this model replace or improve upon PACE as the solution for financing the electrification of the building sector.
Joanna Nelson
01:07:09
In plain language: I want the renters, participants, LMI folks to get credit for their climate _action_, rather than it all accruing to the utilities. (I’m not talking about quantified credits…I want the action to HAPPEN, so however it happens is great; I’m talking about broad-based coalitions of people working on decarbonization. I’ll think about this with EJ groups and Clean Energy Works and others. Thank you again!
Kevin Carroll
01:07:30
To Brian: I would assume that ROI would be comparable to ROIs granted under usual capital investments.
Alice Sung
01:07:37
So Munis and CCAs can offer PAYS?
Erin McDade
01:07:53
+1 for the PACE/CPACE question
Ravi Mikkelsen
01:08:57
Tanya and Gregory, this could be available via every utility. R-PACE is available in 3 states (CA, FL, and MO) and not in every county of those 3 states.
Holly Townes
01:09:11
will this presentation be available to view later?
Holmes Hummel
01:09:22
#5 on this slide is responsive to Brian Stewart’s inquiry about return on capital. IF the utility deploys investment capital, the Commission needs to not disadvantage these investments in decarbonization, sending them to the bottom of the stack for the utility’s management team. If the utility taps a different source of capital, the cost of capital is determined by that source.
Ravi Mikkelsen
01:09:31
C-PACE is available in about 25 states
Panama Bartholomy
01:10:11
Holly: it is available to members of the BDC on the members section of the website. The white paper that this presentation is about can be found here: http://www.buildingdecarb.org/uploads/3/0/7/3/30734489/bdc_whitepaper_final_small.pdf
Tanya Barham
01:10:16
@Ravi - available or enabled by policy? I’ve seen many enabled but not as many municipalities implement
Panama Bartholomy
01:10:38
You can join the Coalition here: http://www.buildingdecarb.org/join.html
Ravi Mikkelsen
01:11:25
@Tanya, there are R-PACE programs enabled in those 3 states and then activated in some but not all of the counties or cities of those states.
Kelly Murphy
01:11:44
Many on this webinar may get value from a 15-minute segment from a webinar one-yr ago by Marshall Cherry, COO, Roanoke Electric Cooperative who spoke on their innovative EE financing for marginalized members -- https://vimeo.com/337393308 EESI – starting at 24:45 to 39:45­
Holmes Hummel
01:12:11
Joanna’s remarks about the leadership of environmental, climate, and social justice communities on winning economic inclusion in the clean energy economy is important. In California, Greenlining Institute and Energy Efficiency For All led EJ/CJ stakeholders in a process the resulted in the Equitable Building Electrification framework. It *specifically* calls on California policy makers to find a way to support inclusive financing solutions, with reference to tariffed on-bill investment.
Jill Ferguson
01:12:13
RE Tanya Barham’s comment “I learned about this model which is already operating with non-utility private capital in NY for the financing but the transaction is - I believe - on bill. Any idea how it fits into this solution set? https://sealed.com/
Thanks!” Sealed is not a Tariffed on bill program. Sealed is a private company that guarantees 10 or 15% savings and takes over all utility billing with a third party insurance guarantee. The customer is shown what they would have paid vs what Sealed is billing then and never see their actual utility bill anymore. Sealed’s programs are often offered in conjunction with a utility and incentives and Sealed’s investments are staked to reduce upfront cost to the customer. There is often a copay, up to 50%. Last I heard they targeted middle and upper income households.
Joanna Nelson
01:13:05
Thank you, Holmes!
Tanya Barham
01:13:43
@jill - fantastic. Thank you.
James Tuleya
01:13:45
Assuming next steps are taken soon and continue apace involving a CA IOU to plan, get approval and launch such a program, what's the current best-guess timeframe for when a program could start? Ballpark timing?
Ravi Mikkelsen
01:14:43
@Jill, according to Sealed;s site, minimum FICO is 680 and home must be owner-occupied for at least 6 months in the NE US, and the homes must be heated with fuel oil or gas.
Michael Gartman
01:14:48
Any perspective on what the timeline could/should be for scaled deployment in CA?
Lindsay Baker
01:15:22
Back to the PACE comparison question that Erin and Gregory asked- Isn’t PAYS also different from PACE in that renters and those with poor credit can use PAYS? That seems like a pretty huge distinction.
Debra Little
01:15:33
Tanya - SEALED is privately funded, not directly connected to bills via utility co
Joanna Nelson
01:15:53
PG& E went bankrupt due to liability for wildfire and now is back with more responsibility to communities and consumers…what happens to the investment/capital/programs if the utility goes bankrupt? Thank you to Jeanne for mentioning resilience to sea-level rise, forests…lots of resilience to attend to amidst climate disruption.
Michael Gartman
01:16:35
How can motivated munis best work to support/accelerate the actions IOUs and other governing bodies need to take to enable this essential piece of the electrification puzzle?
Kevin Carroll
01:16:47
Thank you all for this great work.
Tanya Barham
01:18:05
Thanks, Holmes! Great.
Robert Fortunato
01:18:28
Excellent presentations! Thank you. Consumer protections will be critical for the program's success.
Jill Ferguson
01:18:36
Regarding C-PACE and R-PACE: Property Assessed Clean Energy loans, while assessed on the property bill are loans to the property owner So they must be repaid if the property is sold if the new owner does not want to accept the loan. PACE loans secured are senior to the mortgage, putting the building ownership at risk in cases of default. Lending standards such as credit worthiness are applied for PACE so the LMI customers are often excluded as are renters. Finally, there is no regulation of interest rates and rates have been not nearly as discounted as was originally expected.
Amber Mahone
01:18:55
Bruce mentioned an assumption around 3% financing in his intro example, but the utility cost of capital is usually 7 - 8%. How should we think about that difference? Also - this may be a basic gap in understanding on my part - but if utilities are capitalizing the expenses associated with electrification investments, why are the customers also paying fixed charges for the investment?
Jim Lutz
01:19:02
How can you do electrification where savings in buildings(current low electric bills in mild climates w/o AC in older buildings with limited electrical capacity) are not likely to have significant enough utility bill savings? This may be a significant fraction of residential units in California.
Erin McDade
01:19:04
What is the legal/regulatory difference between PAYS and PACE?
allison ashcroft
01:19:09
excellent answer Holmes
Joanna Nelson
01:19:30
+1 to Allison appreciating Holmes
Chris Carrick
01:19:37
in areas where PAYS is active, what has been the response from the realtors? what concerns have they raised and what best practices can be implemented to address them?
James Tuleya
01:19:51
If a program like this is implemented statewide in CA, what are the key ways that local governments and/or regional agencies (like an air quality management district) and/or Community Choice Energy agencies can help support the value-stacking, uptake or other aspects of the program success?
Alice Sung
01:20:06
This is really great work and very exciting, thank you!
Tanya Barham
01:20:13
+1 Amber
Chris Carrick
01:20:21
I hope the chat is saved/archived - some great info. here!
Jim Lutz
01:20:29
How do you get this to happen for renters who want this when their building owners don't cooperate?
Lois Smith
01:20:32
+ 1 James, very curious about this also
Holmes Hummel
01:20:34
Erin: PACE is approved by local governments, where as a PAYS tariff is approved by utility regulators.
Alice Sung
01:20:37
Is this approach applicable to any building sector? Including public school district s?
Tanya Barham
01:20:54
+1 Jim Lutz
Chris Carrick
01:21:11
I'm also curious about the intersection of PAYS and community choice aggregation programs
Jim Lutz
01:21:35
CCAs seem to have a better history of implementing programs much quicker than IOUs. How do we get this option available for CCAs?
Alice Sung
01:21:41
What would a PAYS approach mean for a homeowner currently enrolled ini its local CCA?
allison ashcroft
01:21:53
just sharing a few resources to help cities, utilities, and states/provinces design more equitable clean energy programs beyond the financing component
Ralph DiNola
01:21:56
Can this be an approach for SB-1477 BUILD and/or TECH and/or SGIP?
Holmes Hummel
01:22:47
Building owners who do not want improvements to their building cannot be compelled by the existence of a tariffed on-bill option. It is not a mandate. Other policies that do obligate landlords to make improvements to their building can motivate uncooperative landlords to reconsider. Of note, thus far in the field, uncooperative landlords have been quite rare.
Ryan Hammond
01:23:14
What's interesting is with decarbonization efforts in districts served by separate electric and gas utilities, the customer will pay more utility dollars to electric and less to gas. Would that further support rationale for an electric utility to support financial programs like this due to the increase in potential revenue from increased electricity usage?
Alice Sung
01:23:44
Ity seems the application is for retrofits to EXISTING buildings only, right? so not applicable to New construction, correct?
Jill Ferguson
01:23:52
There was a report written by Sonoma County Clean Power on the subject of PAYS and CCAs and there is a soon to be released report on Solar PAYS that addresses this question as well.
Gregory Sherman
01:24:08
I am really encouraged by The PAYS model presented here, but the model requires that the retrofit economics can deliver sufficient savings to justify the project cost. In our experience in the residential space, more often than not, the economics don't pencil because electrification is expensive relative to the cost savings. How will we come up with the billions of dollars needed to buy down the cost of these retrofits to allow for PAYS to pencil?
Jill Ferguson
01:24:12
The pending report is from DOE on Solar PAYS
Alice Sung
01:24:29
perhaps we need a webinar on soalr PAYS?
Panama Bartholomy
01:24:36
White paper: http://www.buildingdecarb.org/join.html
Alice Sung
01:24:39
solar, sorry
Bret Andersen
01:24:39
Does the charge on the customers bill reflect the actual installation cost at that site or is it a standard charge for the given measure?
Michaela Neuberger
01:24:50
+Gregory
Leane Eberhart
01:25:05
I'm a renter, I'm ready to volunteer! Let's go now.
Michaela Neuberger
01:25:12
Gregory’s comments are true for BC, Canada.
Jeanne Clinton
01:25:15
Jeanne is jclinton94705@gmail.com
Jim Lutz
01:25:21
How important is it to keep the cost of necessary utility distribution and grid upgrades low?
allison ashcroft
01:25:35
https://cuspnetwork.ca/centring-equity-and-affordability/ includes equitable program design guidebook (7 cities, CUSP, USDN produced with Cadmus), studies of energy poverty in Canada and racial equity implications of energy poverty in Canada, and some webinar prsesentations and recordings re energy poverty for retrofits, for evs, and a presentation from Aaron Berg previously of Clean Energy WOrks Oregon who is now working with many Canadian cities to integrate financing programs into local energy programs https://cuspnetwork.ca/centring-equity-and-affordability/
Chris Carrick
01:27:34
NYPA can access capital at very low rates, and so could states themselves through green banks
Amber Mahone
01:27:44
Thanks for clarifying, very helpful!
Joanna Nelson
01:27:55
Thank you to all the panelists!
Jill Ferguson
01:28:05
It is not inconceivable PAYS could be applied to new construction. Think of it as the utility co-investing in the building to make less expensive to operate. There would be an additional charge on the bill to repay the investment. This could reduce the required size of the mortgage and make the property purchase accessible to a broader population.
Ralph DiNola
01:28:06
Fantastic webinar, thank you!
Brian Stewart
01:28:06
It would be helpful if we could see an example of a site specific upgrade and all the costs and savings broken down with a real world example.
Leane Eberhart
01:28:11
Thanks, wonderful presentation!
Tanya Barham
01:28:21
This was great. Would love to be able to download chat logs
Michaela Neuberger
01:28:45
Everyone should be able to download the chat. I just did.
Alice Sung
01:28:47
YES @ Tanya!
Chris Carrick
01:28:53
looking forward to reading the paper! thank you!
Michaela Neuberger
01:28:57
Three dots to the right of the chat box at the bottom.
Tanya Barham
01:29:01
Got it and did it
Logan Spalding
01:29:03
Thank you!
Lois Smith
01:29:04
Thanks! really terrific presentation
Gabriel Taylor
01:29:10
Thank you!