the ntro taking way too long

good evening everyone. Thank you for your patience

Option to vote was not available on my link!!

Tho the final poll result showed up!???

It's yes for Jews and no for Arabs

South Africa was also a democracy, but exclusively for whites.

No one is free unless everyone is.

Uh…they’re not citizens of Israel. That’s a moved goalpost, to include non-citizens, especially since the Palestinians have their own governments.

Like Ahmad Tibi, MK said, it’s a democracy for Jews and a Jewish State for Arabs

Andrew, Same land different rules=apartheid

Friedman... "the Palestinians have their own governments"? Like the Jews had their own governments in the ghettos??

Mimi - any due respect, it’s not the “same land”. There’s Israel, right? And THEN there’s the West Bank/Gaza. Simply, obviously, that’s not the “same land”.

the metric for "same land": who rules!

For the settlers and the Israeli Right it is the same land!

they were born in that land, so the question is not if the system considers them a citizen, but why does it not? that's the question.

Paul, no. 1. There were no governments in the ghettos. No elections. No operational governing bodies with rights. 2. There were no associative international connections and NGO’s assisting.Zero connection.

There's nothing obvious in your comments to the exclusion of Christians and Arabs/Muslims. Jews were European transports and then the Nakba.

The Judenrats were the governing bodies of the ghettos as much as the PA is the governing body of the Palestinians in the Occupied Territory of the West Bank.

Andrew: you can't use the obvious exclusion of people as justification for excluding them. that's the entire point of the discussion.

It seems to me labels don't matter. It's what works best for all the people regardless of what it is called.

Israel have not annexed the West Bank . There remains an occupation due to the refusal of the PA to negotiate a two state so,union. Thus they are not citizens

Israel is an apartheid democracy by design.

Libby, It hasn't worked since the Nakba but Zionists don't want to hear that.

It doesn't help to get stuck on titles and critical to address human needs. What ever one calls Israel doesn't take into account for the injustices being carried out

Dershowitz just demonstrated that Israelis aDemocracy for Jews, not any one else. This is an oxymoron

Yes, but Israel has a permanent military occupation. The U.S. did not attempt to colonize Germany and Japan.

True- Israeli belligerence continues

IF ISRAEL HAS SO MUCH "FREEDOM OF SPEECH", THEN WHY ARE PEOPLE LIKE PROF. FINKELSTEIN BARRED FROM ENTERING ISRAEL BECAUSE OF HIS CRITICISM OF ISRAEL'S GOV;T IN RELATION TO THE OPPRESSION OF AND LACK OF PALESTINIAN RIGHTS CREATED BY THE OCCUPATION?

He's justifying the occupation.

He just mentioned Jenin! Where a Palestinian American Journalist was assassinated by a Israeli sniper. And then call it act of belligerence? This is arrogance and racist

He's justifying a Free Supremacy for Jews, an Apartheid for everyone else

Nassar, Exactly but he won't discuss it.

I am very disappointed at all the people who are too busy typing their predetermined conclusions/biases without bothering to listen to the speakers. Why did they even register for this session? If they cannot keep an open mind, then why waste their time? As though the chatters are going to change the mind of the speaker??

I BET EVEN I WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO ENTER ISRAEL BECAUSE OF SUPPORTING THE B.D.S. MOVEMENT!!!!

people can listen and write at the same time - to Jeff Pollock

Really Jeff?

Mimi, Jews are decolonizing our indigenous homeland. There’s no colony by the very definition of the word ‘colony’. We are returning.

Nation state law proves Dershowitz last statement false

The US and Israel support the Hamas in Gaza to weaken the power of the PA. They did not expect Hamas will win the democratic elections in 2006 and attempted an armed coup to try and change it.

No proof the killing wasn't an Arab.

bottom line: a maximalist Israel designed to perpetuate Zionist majority/hegemony, girded by sheer brutality, cannot be a democracy. At what point is a very flawed democracy (alleged) can be seen for what it is: an etthnocracy, through and through.

https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/

Len, WRONG!!!!!!

The Hamas victory was predicted and Israel deferred to the US when letting Hamas participate in the election. When Hamas won, Israel didn't recognize the victory and immediately started to limit access to Gaza

Mr. Dershowitz, What do you think about the violation of the Geneva Convention about the transfer of people from the occupier to the occupied territories?

Paul, Israel was designed first by the League of Nations and then the United Nations. Did those organizations then “by design” create “apartheid “? No. Borders after a defensive war didn’t create “apartheid”.

Gazabs can do anything from Egypt and to say Israel controls them is pure bu;; shit! Israel does not control the southern border,

PALESTINIANS IN ISRAEL HAVE FEWER RIGHTS THAN JEWS IN ISRAEL.

I do not know who Mimi Goldman is or her credentials, but ad hominem attacks without any reasoned explanation is not at all proper in this forum or any other.

Gaza a Singapore of the Med? How can this ever be since the port, borders and airways were always blocked and never free. Even before Hamas took over Gaza, tomatoes from Spain and Italy made it to the West Bank cheaper because of the travel restictions.

Mr. Derschowitz, Israel is a good country for ONLY the Jews. You should know; you know very well.

The IMF encouraged Gaza after Olso to grow and export flowers to Europe. Because of the Blockade (Way before Hamas takeover) they ended up feeding the flowers to goats since they could export them due to Israeli restrictions

YES, "democracy" only for Jews living in Israel.

It created a safe haven for Jews

The IDF blew up Al Jazeera offices then assassinated one of their journalists.

Julianna, of course Palestinians who are not citizens have less rights than Israelis - they’re not citizens. Israeli citizens; Christians, Druze, Muslim, B’hai, Samaritans, Jews - all Israeli civilians have the same rights.

Independence from whom?

I think it is unfortunate that the Q being debated is whether Israel is a democracy, as Alan is right that Joseph got off on the wrong foot by suggesting that Parliamentary democracies are not democracies. The Q worthy of debate is whether Israel Palestine is an Apartheid state or regime, which gets to the Q of whether Ps should have democratic rights, which is the Q that Alan has yet to address.

Hannah Arendt did not. She supported a state of its citizens

Jews are in more physical danger in Israel than elsewhere. That’s why Jews aren't coming…

They should all be citizens, unless they're iin the process of becoming citizens due to new immigration.

The Nation State Law of the Jewish People proves it is for Jews, noone else. Not a Democracy, more like an Apartheid State

Hamas won a fair elections

Andrew: again, the question is not what is, but why is it as such. that's the point of the discussion.

I think Alan is wrong in saying that 98.5 percent of Jews support Israel being an exclusively Jewish state. A US poll recently found that about 25% of Jewish voters think Israel is an apartheid state and do not believe in a Jewish state.

His speech is dangerous.

The US attempted a coup after the election in 2006 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/mar/04/usa.israelandthepalestinians

But Mr. Dershowitz, Israel blocks all sorts of consumer goods from entering Gaza.

Israel was rated as a better democracy than the United States. If someone has the source of that rating, please send it in chat. I don’t have the source at hand. thanks

Dershowitz Started from Before Day 1 as a Jewish only State, they forced outover 75% of Palestiniansincluding me and my family too make it only a Jewish State

Israel is too good to Gaza,

But Israel prevents Gaza from growing food, raising chickens & controls how many calories of food go into Gaza and admits it. Is that not genocidal?

Hey, Emanuel, it’s been the best year ever for Aliyah. So…you’re incorrect. Jews are returning to our indigenous homeland in record numbers.

Gazans stand up against the overall Occupation.

The Muslims in Israel, who are Israeli citizens, have much better life and freedom than any other Muslims in ALL Muslim and Arab countries!!! And yet, some of them perform terrorist activities against Israeli and Jewish people in Israel.

Mr. Dershowitz, with all due respect, you haven't respected the challenge you made concerning inaccuracies in your book The Case for Israel

And killing livestock and decimating olive trees.

Please show the map presented to the Palestinians

Virtually no one the Israeli government supports a 2 state solution, so that is a misleading and deceptive argument.

Yes, show the map of the 96%

yes but Mandella and the ANU were considered terrorists in the US till 2008

The PA has token administration of the West Bank. The IDF rolls into Area A frequently, although it supposed to be a PA-administered area.

What about zionism and the fact that Israel wants the land without the people?

I never heard such warping of the reality on the ground. The professor is not tethered to reality and conscious, immoral disregard of continued quasi-genocidal policy (massacres) aginst ghaza

If Israel has a true democracy, Rabin wouldn't have been shot. The killing of the Prime Minister Rabin has proven at that time that the Israeli democracy as they claim, the democracy of all, was a sham.

You cannot, because none was actually offered. Only talking points were offered

Since Hamas and the PLO hate one another there would have to be a three state solution. Neither hamas nor the Pro want a state of their own: they want to destroy Israel.

Dershowitz is using sophist arguments to bolster his argument, especially "whataboutism." Whataboutism is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument.

"came back" according to what? a book written in Iraq aks Torah?

There never was a 2 state solution

aka*

Mr. Dersahowitz,

I agree that a "marriage" / IPC wouldn't work now because Israel would VETO most anything that would give Palestinians fair rights - due to fear and/or other "reasons".

There isn't enough land left to design two supportive states. It's an old way of thinking

whole heartedly agree with paul: obfuscation by syllogistic fallacies

Mr. Dershowitz needs to read the chat and address these questions. I believe he chooses to ignore the true living situation for Palestinians which is presented here.

In your opinion (assuming you really likes to see two states) what should be the territory of Palestine? What should be the capital of Palestine?

Will Mr. D. address the despicable settlers behavior?

Israel limits materials that could be used for building weapons. I live on the border and see tens of trucks with goods barrleing down to Gaza every day

Libby is right, 2 states are not an option anymore

There are 9.5 million Israelis including Arabs who are 21 % of the population. There are 6.5. million JEws in Israel and more coming every day: from France, Ukraine and elsewhere including the US

The settlers are not going to leave , so, what do you think the borders will be that will be accepted by Abu Mazen ? a question to Dershowitch

I beg do differ about the "chat." Lively doesn't describe it. It's populated by people who absolutely think they know more than the speakers; whose minds are absolutely made up; and by many people who absolutely hate Israel and don't believe that Jews have a right to sovereignty. Mr. Avesar is simply offering a solution which is a world without a Jewish state.

what is a jewish state?

Israel's motive appears to be, certainly, to take the entire Land and control it - perhaps with continuing oppression of Palestinians IN Israel - or not granting citizenship, purposely, in order to maintain "power". LOOK AT THE PATTERN: mile by mile, Palestinian Land has been confiscated by Israel, even AGAINST INTERNTIONAL LAW.

Michael, As a Jew that's an insult

Why does Mr. Avesar think that we Jews are safe here in the US forever? We are experiencing a dangerous rise in antisemitism. Is he not aware that our safety here can be just as limited eventually as it has been in many other countries over the centuries? Murder, explosion, over and over again for us Jews.

Adele is correct. 100% correct. Building materials are limited because Hamas and other terror groups use those items for their own uses, not for the people of Gaza.

@Michael.. do not assume the chatters here are less knowledgeable than the speakers. Some of us have real life experiences with this situation which is not taught in any classroom

Mimi, that is your sole credential?

It is very serious to kill animals and cut down olive trees. It's more serious to murder innocent people with axes and knives just because they are Jews. Then give the killers salaries by the Palestinian Authority. I wish there was condemnation of the killers among the Palestinians at least as there is in Israel for loggers.

The arabs do not want democracy and religion will not go away ever: not from the Arabs or from the Jews.

I'm a jew. Just stop it.

Also, what is wrong of holding an opinion that there should be neither a Jewish, Christian, Muslim or any other type of religious/ ethno state?

OH dear, where is the reality in his thinking. Then will not be a democracy if Hamas and the PLO have any choice in the matter. There is not ONE democracy in the Middle East except for Israel. So why is Mr. Avesar saying that they want democracy???

“Known by many names, One God!”

Belgium?

Why are there riots between Muslims and police in Sweden? Who did they conquer?

United States?

Switzerland?

Like the u.s., Israelis will never acknowledge their racism.

As a Palestinian, I am astonished at the disregard for our humanity. This is not just about democracy or not a democracy. The issue that concerns us is existence. Apartheid, ethnic cleansing and land grabs, access to movement and separation of families from their loved ones and land. This is the issue. Treat us and look at us as humans.

BOTH SIDES ARE SO ANGRY WITH ONE ANOTHER THAT THEY USE VIOLENCE to "communicate" rather than negotiation with meaningful and HONEST accountability. HOW COULD THAT ANGER BE STOPPED? Well, for starters would be to grant citizenship to minorities in Israel and to allow all to VOTE and have EQUAL RIGHTS: that is a true democracy then.

Zohar, are there not 23ish Arab states already (and are they not founded upon Sharia law)? There cannot be 1 measly New Jersey-sized Jewish state located where the Jews lived historically over 5000 years ago (as proven continuously by all the archeological findings)?

Belgium now has a problem with its Muslims who rioted last week because someone insulted the Koran or burned one.. They attacked the police there. There is no apartheid in Israel. Sharia Law doesn’t include democracy.

Alan D wants to support a 2 state when Palestine is prison state that he thinks the Palestinian deserve.

There is NO history of democracy in the Middle East Arab countries.

Mr. D is blaming the victim.

Question!!!! why should the Jews do anything for the Muslim population on the West Bank Or Gaza. They are both Muslim and 2 basic rules they live by is that they musr reconquer Israel and all Jews Ar Dhimi. Why should we give them any rights until the change both those basic principals of Islam!

My reponse to Nasser's msg. is that it is shocking to me too!

how are Israeli massacres, administrative detentions, demolotions the fault of palestinians

Democracy does not / should not allow "Sharia Law". And burkas, as an aside here, I think should not be allowed due to safety: criminals can hide behind burkas!!!!

The Israelis managed to make peace with Egypt, Bahrain, and the UAE so why can’t the Palestinians stop their hateful attacks on Israel and come to negotiate a state of their own?

Israel is peacefully assassinating journalist, children, mothers & fathers

Palestinians had nothing to do with the holocaust

This nothing other than a misleading analogy. Pakistan and India have their own territories. unlike Israel that's based on genocides and ethnic cleansing. "Nakba". stop sugar coating Zionism.

Dorothea, to make peace with Egypt Israel had to give back the land it took.. the other ones had no land claims

Estee, Exactly

I really don't understand what happens in Gaza. Who controls what? Air, fudhing, the egupyian border...? May Mr. Alan clear this stuff ?

Dershowitz, listen to yourself Islamopobhic argument about Muslims across the broad.That was the problem in 1930’s Europe against Jews, by Nazis

fishing

Nasser is right. dispense with academic abstractions. address Israeli impunity

Peace for Jews = the dehumanization of the Palestinians. Palestinians are asked to sacrifice their rights as Humans for Israeli existence. Does anyone else have an issue with this?

Mr. Dershowitz's second reply: replace Russia with Israel and Ukraine for Palestine and you get a perfect Putin speech

Jeff Pollock, how Latin American states where most of the population are in the Americas? The fact that there are 22 Arab States, does not imply that the Palestinian State should not exist.

have you come here to listen?

Who’s going to remove 750k settlers from the Palestinian state?

What about taking the land without the people? Policy revealed in Ilan Pappe's books and released Israeli military documents.

Bravo prof. Dershowitz

There is no proof that Israel killed the Journalist . the Palestinians have refused to let the IDF see the bullet!! when they see the bullet they will know who killed her for sure. Stop demonizing Israel with the genocidal lise as well. There are now 5 million Arabs living in Gaza and the W. bank. Where is the Genocide. The Genocide lie is a propaganda ploy by the Palestinians to use this language to convince people that they are being murdered en masse. Stop the Hamas wars and terrorism and the israelis will come to the table to find a solution and hopefully a state could be created.

As Palestinians, we want equality and security and do not want to sacrifice our rights and existence for Israel. In a previous visit, Alan D sad that it was impossible that Palestinians should not accept to be totally free

STRENGTH COMES FROM PEACE, Mr. Dershowitz. But this is a more spiritual approach. "Peace thru strength" is a more materialistic approach and is always missing something--a deeper kind of true Peace, not one that comes from oppressive "peace". Russia isn't going to be more "peaceful" because of losing in Ukraine. It's going to merely stop killing and will "go home", with things Unresolved at that point, at least.

The radical Zionists now in control of Israel are alienating Jews in America, particularly those under 35. Increasingly, they disagree with Israel's radical policies and its leadership. They believe that Israel's policies will eventually create vehement anti-Semitism in the US and jeopardize Jewish success in America. These young Jewish-Americans are less and less religious, marry increasingly across ethnic and religious lines, and do not wish to jeopardize what they have in America -- which they believe Israel is increasingly doing. One could say that the experiment begun in 1948 is failing disastrously, democracy or not.

The US is becoming a failed pluralistic state. We are moving toward dictatorship with hate directed at Latinos, Asians, Jews on the right and the left.

STRENGTH THROUGH PEACE, Mr. Dershowitz, and as purported by Rep. Dennis Kucinich.

Alan's argument seems to be based on the premise that Palestinians are an inferior tribe that will accept domination from now on, which is why he can suggest a Palestinian state that is completely unarmed next to an Israeli state armed to the teeth.

Zev: neither of those two things are parts Islam. The Jewish people are exalted in Islam as the People of the Book. The Israel outcome is not even addressed by Islam. this is a side effect of years of conflict, not based in actual 'basic' Islam beliefs.

Does Dershowitz speak out when Israel announces ethic cleansing of Palestinian towns? Announcements of new illegal settlements?

The only reason it has "failed" is because the Palestinian leadership has constantly rejected each and every offer, from the very beginning. How do people not understand that? Palestinians just are unwilling to accept a Jewish democratic country in the Middle East

Alan Dershowitz, you ROCK! So clear, so logical - spot on! Thank you!

Paul McDermott, WOW! Victim of what?? Espousing the total destruction of Israel and death to all Jews. As the much more learned than everyone on this call, Professor Dershowitz if the Palestinians had EVER accepted the offer of their own country ALONG SIDE and in COEXISTENCE WITH THE JEWS and not initiated bus bombings, suicide bombings, missiles from areas hidden among civilians, terror tunnels, plane hijackings, ad nauseam. Please understand the context of Israel protecting its own citizenry. Every country has the right and duty to protect its existence and keep out/exclude rioters, covert BDS rebels, terrorists who sneak in to attack innocent children, etc.

Iran?

Ask a better question.. If Israel is waiting for "Peace," Why is the government sanctioning the seizure or Palestinian neighborhoods in Jerusalem and the West Bank. At the same time, making laws for Jews only to be able to take these lands.

Did mr Avesar forget Jewish History? Did he forget the HOlocaust and the hate directed at Jews for centuries? Yes we need Israel for sure and more and more. the Diaspora has been exceedingly dangerous for Jews.

Get back to the topic : Is Israel a Democracy?

Avesar is pushing lofty ideas with hollow arguments. He should talk about what continued occupation does to the national psyche.

Dorothea two wrongs don't make a right.

Josef, what would you do if you were continually threatened by Iran? Why would Israel not be allowed to defend itself like any other sovereign nation

adele, study why the so called proposals for peace were utterly untanable and unilateral y onerous from any moral perspective before you summarily dismiss Palestinian "rejection"s of peace.

Israel Aharoni, there is n o point Dershowitz clearly explained why Israel IS a democracy and why Avesar's thesis is completely wrong.

The IPC would deal with problems common to BOTH Israel and Palestine, not internal problems of each "country".

Iran is another example of why democracy cannot be religious. it always fails.

Elly Levy - what do you suggest I study - can put a link here?

One of the reasons the U.N. is less powerful is because the USA and Israel vote against Justice in relation to Israel/Palestine - the USA even VETOS recognizing Palestine as a potential "state"!

Why does Israel support laws that expand Israeli control and seize Palestinian areas. There is mass building in East Jerusalem. In the West, there is nothing being built like the East. Settler when form 250k to 800K since Oslo. So Alan D is blaming the Palestinians, but we see the reality on the ground.

debate should be: is Israel, with respect to ALL its subjects, an apartheid street?

But Alan, you seem to think that Palestinians being in charge of their own future is also anathema, because they will forever be a threat to Jews. So that leaves you with the argument that Jews will have to remain dominant over Palestinians and Moslems and Iranians and all those you fear forever. That argument is as bankrupt as what you fear from the other tribes

Dershowitz, Italy is the nation state ofthe Italian People,yes, but not hte Christian People, it is the nation state of all its people. Israeli wants itself for tjh epeopleof one Religion, not all its people.

FREE SPEECH IS N O T ALWAYS GUARANTEED IN ISRAEL!!!!!

Clearly more and more folks disagree with his premise

Abraham, you totally missed the point that THE ARABS SHOULD ALLOW 1 MERE NATION STATE OF THE JEWISH PEOPLE TO EXIST PEACEFULLY AND PEACEABLY. I have no problem with the Palestinians becoming their own 24th or 124th Arab State … if they accept Israel's existence, not try to destroy it, and do it somewhere else than on top of or in place of a tiny Israel and on the graves of Jewish people who do not want to follow Sharia law.

The Nation State of Israel = the elimination of the Palestinians as a people. "A land without a people for a people without a land."

what defines a Democracy?

Taking more land to assure control simply is squeezing the life out of the Palestinian people.

Israel has proven unwilling to accept let alone protect the safety of Palestinians

AGAIN STATED, MR. Dershowitz: Prof. Finkelstein is not allowed in Israel because of speaking out against Israel's policies and actions against Palestinians; I WOULD NOT BE welcome in Israel if they noted that I support BDS!! That's NOT "free speech"!!

Hasan, the world long ago, through the League of Nations and later the United Nations, that Jews, like the French and English, are a people that deserve sovereignty. Zionism is the national movement of the Jewish people.

Hamas and the PLO are squeezing the life out of the Palestinian people.

Hamas hold the people of Gaza hostage just as they hold people like me, who live on the border with the Gaza Strip, hostage.

Hasan, the world long ago, through the League of Nations and later the United Nations, DECIDED that Jews, like the French and English, are a people that deserve sovereignty. Zionism is the national movement of the Jewish people.

Dorthea, Odd logic

Get back please to the topic

And Israeli leaders continue to implore the US to attack Iran!! Not visa-versa

yes, that's bad as well

Yes, I think it would be better that Hamas and the PLO would merge into a common movement.

"they too" is a false arguemtn

right, zohar

Can we ask Alan D: What part of Israel is defense with laws that are moving 100s of thousands of Jew to the West Bank, and seizing lands in Jeruslam's Palestinian parts.

It's crystal clear that the zionist propaganda is falling apart.

There is no history of democracy in the Middle East. When the Palestinians do get their state it ill not be a democracy.

By the way Mr. Avesar is talking about Nuclear issues one should question his seriousness.

Julieanna, when did you become an Israeli citizen entitled to free speech in a country you are trying to destroy? Would you expect to go to Russia to criticize Putin in the streets of Moscow and expect to not be jailed immediately? Why should you get to invade any country as a guest and get to overthrow it? Please try to go to Venezuela and criticize Chavez or Iran and criticize the mullahs.

In the mid 200's, Israel IGNORED Hamas' offer for the 1967 borders AND recognizing Israel.

Palestine was a thriving metropolis until the Nakba

Until the Palestinians stop fighting against each other, there is no way they can get to any point of forming a state. They have NO government, NO unity. They cannot come to any solution (peace) with Israel before they come to a solution (peace) with themselves.

Mimi.... Seriously????????

Yes, the NAKBA, Mr. Dershowitz? How do you justify that?

Palestinians would like a government like Israel, but idea, not practice. A government for all people.

The Palestinians are now in the Israeli government and getting more help from the government.

The NAKBA certainly didn't endear Palestinians to Israelis.

1. Zionism is a creation of Ashkenazy Jews,

The right of return is not guaranteed after any war.

Israel Palestinians Dorothea, not WB or gaza Palestinians

Ramez - Zionism is the heart of Judiasm - we have prayed towards Jerusalem for millenia….

The same supreme court that agreed to remove 1000s from land in the west bank last week

Dorthea, Tell that to the Ukrainians

this is the future https://fathomjournal.org/a-proposal-for-a-federal-republic-of-israel/

Dorothea, many jews claimed rights in EU nations, denying the Palestinians the same is unjust

2. Ashkenazy Jews are converts into Judaism, for the most part. They are Russians, many of whom immigrated to East European countries.

nonsensical

850,000 JEws escaped to Israel from all the Arab middle eastern and N. africn countries. Do you ant the right of return and return of all of their property and wealth to them too??? If not do you really think the right of return should ONLY be applies to the Palestinians??

Michael, The league of Nations did not give anything to anybody. The UN gave The Jewish Immigrants to Palestine 54% ofPalestine. The UN did not consult with the Inhabitants of Palestine, nor did it own any of Palestine to give it anyway. The western wprld paid for 2000 yers of Anti semitic treatment of European Jews, that ended with the Holocaust. They paid for their guilt over the Holocaust by giving the Jews someone else's country.

A supreme court that is a tool for Jewish superiority in the land, some of the Judges who live in West Bank settlements.

Ramez - are you Jewish?

Look at their DNA Madame, how many of them can trace their genes to Ancient Israel?

Adele, doesn't matter

please stop with the one holocaust justifying another: disgusting and disrespectful of holocausr survivors

3. Does it matter if I am Jewish or not?

It totally matters. you would not want Jews to define YOU - you have no right to define Jews.

It doesn't matter.

There is a law that allows Jews to claim lands they owned in 1948 in East Jerusalem. This applied to only Jews. So Palestinians, citizens or not, are not allowed by this law. How is this democracy?

Ok Mimi.

@Michael yes. before 48 Palestine was the third biggest exporter of oranges in the world. and one of the most vital trade centers in the middle east.

League of Nations recognized the right of the Jewish people to sovereignty. There's a lot of truth in your response to me but it's not the whole story.

Mr. Avesar, why don’t you condemn that axe attack by Palestinians? They will not make it any easier for the Palestinians to have a state of their own.

Mr. D. loves to throw around peace and democracy.

Stop the violence and see if this new government will come to the table and see if HAMAS and the PLO will come to the table?

I doubt it.

4. the Zionist movement was a colonial settler movement based on the myth of our origin being from Palestine/Ancient Israel. They are as Jewish as the Dutch/Brits were Africans.

This is the question directly related to the topic of "Is Israel a democracy?" There is a law that allows Jews to claim lands they owned in 1948 in East Jerusalem. This applied to only Jews. So Palestinians, citizens or not, are not allowed by this law. How is this democracy?

American JEws are being killed here too in the US

Ramez- Jews are from Judea. We are indigenous to this region.

This man is unbelievable

mimi: same stale arguments , youre right

Mimi: Enough already. You add nothing to the debate but your curt criticisms of every pro-Jew, pro-Israel, pro-peace comment.

Accepted, after the NAKBA?

The most annoying thing is what they do not write. They do not say they do not want to see Jews. They seem to come in the name of humanity. Where is the humanity when Hamas executes civilians in Gaza? And the mass killing in Syria? Say what you really think and do not speak in the name of values you do not believe in. If the Palestinians believed in freedom and human rights, peace would have been here many years ago.

Recommend everyone to watch "The Human Factor" documentary by Dror Moreh

@elly, maybe you could read a little more about the Holocaust? So you could stop writing this kind of nonsense

As a Jew in the Uk I feel safer knowing that Israel exists.

Dershowitz, The Zionist pland and beliefs were built years before 1948, they wanted a Land without a people for a people without a land. They wanted all Palestine without PALESTINIANS

Blame the Palestinians!! Blame the victims!!

5. They are as much racist as the white SAs. Look at the recent killing of the Al Jazeerah journalist. Whats the point of beating up those carrying her often except for the fact that they could not stand a Palestinian flag on her coffin and in her house.

Stephen as an Israeli, I feel safer in the UK

LIE!!!!!!!!

I wouldn't be allowed in Israel nor would many other jews.

Amen to Prof. Dershowitz

6. As a result of the Holocaust, why did the Zionists not accept taking a part of Germany or the US? Why Palestine?

does this man live on this planet?

Israel did not get reborn because of the Holocaust, THe Holocaust was able to happen because there was no Israel

OK, I get it Mr. Dershowitz. You have these dates memorized of alleged “offers" for Palestine with no supporting data. You are an excellent apologist for Israel. But what about the Jersulamites who only have permits to live there and cannot vote for national Israeli officials and can't run for office in Jerusalem itself?

Good point Adele

The truth is that you are a Nakba denier. Zionist carried out a well planned ethnic cleansing plan to remove 80% of the Palestinians. more than 75% before any Arab army stepped foot in the country.

Any argument that states 100% of the blame lies with one side is never correct!

Truth Nasser

that's an ethnocracy

Good point, Rambod

7... could you try to listen, Ramez? It seems uou can't

I agree RA. Both sides can do better!

indeed, zohar

Blame the Palestinians for existing.

What about the thousands of non-Jews in Jerusalem whose housing is being demolished daily?

dialogue is important as Sharansky wrote.

I am a member of the Jewish race. I may or may not practice Judaism

Thank you, Prof Dershowitz, so much for your support and wisdom. As an Israeli America who lives on the border with the Gaza Strip, I appreciate your hard work.

Dorthea, not when there's only one narrative

I came in rooting for Avesar, but it is clear Dershowitz won the debate.

What about the non-Jewish rural Palestinians who live in Occupied Area C who are being evicted and pushed into Area A, urban ?

7. Name me one Israeli who does not have a 2nd citizenship; they will never have peace in Israel/Palestine as it is now. And the Palestinians are getting more not less radical. The latest census already shows that the Pals have become a majority What then for the future of a democracy for Israel? Can they make a Jewish state. Why not? Nobody is going torecognize a theocratic state, not even the US.

ISSUES common to both sides, Josef -. What about internal domestic issues for each side?

There are many Moslem countries and only 1 little Jewish one - how can that be denied us?

I am not sure what scares me more. When people blame the Palestinians 100% and denies the atrocity and injustice committed against them and believe it. Or those who say it to cover the truth.

Israel will end up like South Africa. Better for Israel to prepare for that future.

I thought the IPC would handle ONLY problems common to each side.

Mr. Avesar has a peaceful vision but the means and the realities on both sides are not there by a long shot. Hamas supported by Iran , Turkey and now Russia, will not give up its power and its goal of destroying ISrael. Should we trust anything that Hamas says the way we trusted Mr. Arafat who agreed to Oslo with one side of his mouth and incited the Intifada with the other.

Naseer: That statement was the epitome of having a conclusion in mind and then inventing an absurd statement to justify it.

Literally covering the truth.

What is the difference between "a Jewish state” and "a nation state for the Jews”? The semantics remind me of the NYT and its “deeply reported journalism”. What is that? Reporting from the bottom of a trench?

what does all of this have to do with apartheid practices of Israel, proven and undisputed

Yes Lawrence

It is time to stop blaiming and rationalizing anyone and begin to think creatively what works best for the entire area.

Mr. D: How on earth can the Palestinians have a "state" when Israel keeps stealing Palestinian Land? there's very little land left for a Palestinian State!!

If you don't believe that Judaism is not only a religion,why did Israel take away all the babies of the Yemeni Jews away from their pants and raise them as European Jews???

Palestinians are not going anywhere. We are not going to accept anything less than what we are entitled to. Our rights to live in Justice and equal is to important for us. This occupation and apartheid did not rid the earth of us. Time is on our side. We can withstand over time. I pray that wisdom overcomes the irrational and racist ideology that exists today. I hope so for our generation and the future ones.

Israel is a democratic apartheid state. There's a tongue-twister!

How can you call aparthide when we have judges, MKs, acadmics, heads of instutions who are Arabs? That is so absurd!

omfg!!!!!!!

My fellow Arab citizens have all the rights that I do.

This man is delusional

not sure your fellow Arab citizens agree with you

so because we elected obama, there is no institutional racism?!

In fact, your fellow jewish Israeli citizens don't

Dershowitz is Trump supporter so there's that.

Mr. D - doesn't want to answer questions? He's leaving now.... hmmmmmm

Thanks Alan. Nice to see you again.

An apartheid democracy, like in apartheid SA.

@Adele as a Palestinian citizen of Israel this the dumbest thing I've read in this chat

NO questions were allowed in this debate period.

It's not an opinion, it's a fact that all citizens have equal rights. I;m not saying that there is no racism on the individual level- of course there are Israelis who are shmucks- but by the law - Arabs have the same rights as I do, Including access to education, welfare, medical care, and much more

No Adele.

“Race” is a social construct

read a few reports by Jewish Israel human rights organizations like Betselem

Sorry Mr. Derkowitz, anti-Semitism since 47 has become anti-Arabism and the biggest practioners of anti Semitism are those who are Zionists. They hate the mention of the word arab or muslim. You know very well Muslims and Arabs are not anti Jewish but anti Zionists. YOu , Mr. Derkowitz are the anti-Semite.

Lol!!!!!

Looks like those present have some illusion about what a democracy is.

Israel is NOT a democracy, Mr. D!

Eyas - what rights do I have that you do not?

Thank you professor Dershowitz. If you read the chat you'll be appalled, not surprised, by the ignorance about Israel and the hatred of Israel.

what good are rights if not exercisable to a meaningful extent?

Votes are never conclusive, eh Mr. Dershowitz?

dershowitz invented a new type of democracy - where 40% of permanent residents are not citizens... and 16% are second class citizens with no equal rights.. this is called aparth3eid no?

Jews hating Jews is the worst nightmare for us: divisiveness is what destroyed Israel in 70 AD

not true

Dorothea - I agree.

The best life the Jews had throughout their history was under the Arabs and Muslims, Mr. Shapiro

Sharia Law can't be a part of democracy. However, Palestinians should be able to vote on issues if they live and are citizens in Israel.

plenty of jews in turkey

Jews are not allowed to have diverging opinions? If they do, they are self-hating? I can't agree.

Ramez, oh my God.. Your distortion of history is breathtaking.

"The best life the Jews had throughout their history was under the Arabs and Muslims, Mr. Shapiro" is that why they were chased out lol

Thank you for the lively debate

They had to pay a tax for being Jewish? So did the Christians and all non Muslim group. The same was in Europe where for hudreds of years the protestants had to pay such a poll tax until the French Revolution

A Two-State solution would have been a decent solution; however, Israel keeps stealing Palestinian Land---so what land is there for a true Palestinian State! Israel has worked against Peace in this way.

For over 1300 years,Jews were safer in the Arab and Muslimworld. During the Spanish Inquisition The Catholic church went after the Jews the same way as they did after the Muslims, Most trouble the jews had in their lives is in Europe 2000 years. Beofe Israel, Jews in the Arab world lived as my neighboirs, my fellow students,

@Adele you have the right to get a high funded education than me. you have the right to pray peacefully in your synagogue. you have the right to live in any moshav (like Migav) and I don't. not to mention the nation nation state law that labels me as a second class citizen.

"A Two-State solution would have been a decent solution; however, Israel keeps stealing Palestinian Land---so what land is there for a true Palestinian State! Israel has worked against Peace in this way"

Muslim mere talk of wanting to "destroy" Israel is extreme, agreed. But I think it's more angry talk that something practical.

u r forgetting Israel gave back Gaza AND Sinai

Mr. Siro, According to some Rabbies the Gentiles (more than 6 billion people) were created ONLY to serve the Jews. Do you believe in this?

*Mr. Shapiro ...

gave back? Israel couldn't afford the "security " costs for staying in gaza

nah it was,so Sadat wouldn't look a twit

Iranian Jews were very well treated before religion destroyed that government. maybe that's the point. religion should have no place in any government that wishes to be a democracy.

The Mossad kidnapped my mother, a helpless Israeli Jewish woman, and many other women, passed on to Arab terrorists a cover story as if it were not them, urgently rescued, contact me anyone, michal shani

Please contact me viaMy Whatsapp link https://wa.link/elzd7g

Good point - about "client states"!

The Mossad kidnapped my mother, a helpless Israeli Jewish woman, and many other women, passed on to Arab terrorists a cover story as if it were not them, urgently rescued, contact me anyone Please contact me via My Whatsapp link https://wa.link/elzd7g

Joseph has done a good job. Dershowitz throwing past actitities around does not cancel the fact that the Jewish Occupation of the Palestinian people deprives the Palestinian not only of the right to vote but of basic human rights. Aa long as the occupation continues, the Israelis will continue to experience violence.

Oh good grief. It's persecution 101.

indeed, marina!!

that's a very racist statement Dorothea

Dorothea is correct

The Mossad kidnapped my mother, a helpless Israeli Jewish woman, and many other women, passed on to Arab terrorists a cover story as if it were not them, urgently rescued, contact me anyone,Michal shani, from Holon city, Please contact me via My Whatsapp link https://wa.link/elzd7g

Thank you Jonathan Gerard. The man who stood above the debate instead of being swallowed by it

Superiority complex Dorthea

Israel is only democracy in the M.E? Lebanon is not a democracy? Turkey not a democracy?

PM maybe Tunisia

So Joseph admits that Israel IS a democracy?!

let him speak. we can clearly you're democratic ethics.

He is holding up Israel as an example of a Democracy where people came not having prior experience of democracy

Excellent point, Naomi!

spending all this time on labels and what has or has not worked in the past keeps us stuck in old thinking. It is time to be creative and think in ways that acknowledge we are ALL totally interconnected, interdependent, interrelated. How we choose to live today will detemine life on the planet for EVERYONE. There is no idividual survival any more. Covid and Climate Crisis make that clear.

THE HOLOCAUST HAPPENED BECAUSE THER WAS NO ISRAEL

Big contradiction to his argument.

European transplants

WAS ABLT TO HAPPEN

democratic semblance only for jews and pre-67, not ALL citizens. Let us confront reality.

He said now they have a democracy and the whole debate he was saying Israel is not a democracy

wtf!!

Democracy for Jews only

right Ramez

And that's a wrap!

is that why Arabs are in Knesset

And that s a wrap - Israel IS a democracy according to Joseph

Apartheid is correct. This is the reality.

so is suicide bombers

Zev Shapiro EXACTLY!

Calling Israel an aparthide state is not only wrong, but it disprespects the south african blacks.

Desmond Tutu agreed.

mimi is right!!! its aprtheid, unequivically, please stop with truncated arguments that its a democarACY OF (ALL) ITS SUBJECTS

Adele Exactly!

Jews lived in many Muslim countries in peace for centuries. To say otherwise is not historically incorrect.

is correct but everything changed

Racist AND disrespectful to both Adele

*correct

In the end it doesn't matter what anyone says. Its all up to God. Not anyone in this room.

GOD IS ONE OF THE PRICIPAL PROBLEMS HERE!!!

Adele. The Holocaust occurred because of Christian anti-Semitism. The U.S. and E.U. have offered up Palestine to the Jews because of their guilt. The creation of Israel as a Jewish state has worsened anti-Semitism and fueled Islamophobia (several examples of which have been expressed in this chat).

Your Blaming god for the behavior of People?

People make their own choices

THERE IS NO GOD, RELIGION IS WEAPONIZED.

God sent me to make peace and sort things out

Zionism is the root problem

There was always religious Zionism.

The same was true in Iran. Amazing collaboration until religion became a way of government. The State and religion must be separate.

salaam shalom from Madrid💟

ZIONISM IS A POLITICAL IDEOLOGY, SECULAR AT NASCENCY, BUT THEN OPPORTUNISTICALY HIJACKED RELIGION

Political Zionism was a 19th century creation among European Jews but religious Zionism always existed.

Religious Zionism is completely different from political Zionism Mrs Katz.

Thank you, Hasan.

CORRECT

I agree with this man.

Hasan you are a man of Peace

beautiful historical perspective Hasan. love it.

89

Incredible vision!!!!

RESPECT

What religion is Josef Avesar?

doesn't matter Gloria

Bravo Mr. Hammami

THANK YOU , HASAN!!

It matters to me. You don’t get to decide that!

why?

The Mossad kidnapped my mother, a helpless Israeli Jewish woman, and many other women, passed on to Arab terrorists a cover story as if it were not them, urgently rescued, contact me anyone,Michal shani, from Holon city, Please contact me via My Whatsapp link https://wa.link/elzd7g

Exactly!!!

Israelis are incapable of acknowledging the Nakba.

mimi do you have anything actually constructive to say?

this is Hasan Hammami Iencoourage everyone who is interested to get the Book by Israel Shahak, Jewish History , Jewish Religion The Weight of 2000 years

c morton, you don't get to control the narrative

so?

c morton has nothing

let the vitriol go, darling

A respected human rights organization is now "biased". That's rich.

Len, you have a distorted view of history.

BIAS NONEWITHSTANDING, FACTS ARE FACTS. AL HUSSENI DOES NOT SPEAK FOR ALL PALESTINIANS

SO WAS SHARON, SO WHAT?

cut him off. No question

REALITY IS REPRESSION. ISRAEL IS THE PREPETRATOR, PERIOD

No rant, Lev!!

PLO did not throw out Christians from Lebanon. The Lebanese Christian militia threw out the Pals. with the help of the Israeli army.

Jews have been Zionists for about 3,000 years. When they were conquered by the Babylonians/Persians in 586 BCE and led away in chains to Babylon, they sat at river and cried about going back to Zion. King Cyrus allowed them to return about 100 years later. They were Zionists. When the Hebrews were slaves in about 1300 BCE and left Egypt, they were Zionists who went back to the land of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Zionism has been a central part of Judaism for thousands of years.

RANT WHEN YOU DON'T LIKE IT

More blaming the victims.

The Palestinians have their own homeland. But it's been occupied by Zionists.

Right Paul.

Who are all these Ashkenazis who are ranting and raving here? What do they have to do with Palestine and ancient Israel? Hello?

Again, blame the victims.

The Mossad kidnapped my mother, a helpless Israeli Jewish woman, and many other women, passed on to Arab terrorists a cover story as if it were not them, urgently rescued, contact me anyone,Michal shani, from Holon city, Please contact me via My Whatsapp link https://wa.link/elzd7g

Please ask me any question

Who is this Benny and Len who are getting very emotional?

He's suggesting separation just like SA.

Jews have always been subjugated as dhimmi in Muslim lands.

המוסד חטף את אמא שלי, אישה יהודיה ישראלית, חסרת ישע, ועוד הרבה נשים, זה סחר בבני אדם, העבירו למחבלים ערבים, סיפור כיסוי כאילו זה לא הם, הצילו דחוף, מיכל שני מהעיר חולון,תיצרו איתי קשר כל אחדPlease contact me viaMy Whatsapp link https://wa.link/elzd7gבבקשה תשאלו אותי כל שאלה

Jews were tormented and expelled from virtually all Muslim/Arab countries in 1948.

Hey Michael? Don't you read what was said and stated on this point? That's the problem with fascists

Bam!!

Thank you for calling me a Fascist. Proof that you are unwilling to have an intelligent discussion. When you have to resort to name-calling, you show your true colors.

So Michael, if Jews have always been subjugated as dhimmi in Muslim lands, is your answer to treat Palestinians as subjugated inferiors. Can you move beyond this? Can you learn from this? Or have you derived the wrong lesson? Might makes right!?

If you don't like it Leave!!! if your not here, do everyone a favor and don't come.

Michael Waterman. Zionism is a political movement , started by an Austrian Journalist, His name is writer.THEODOR HERTZL. Read the History

The Zionists have become what they sought to escape in Europe.

Then prove me wrong, Michael. I wrote before about all non Muslims had to pay a 2% tax. They were not slaughtered for being a non Muslim. Protestants had to pay a much higher tax in Catholic Europe, including the UK. All that has changed. Move on.

I am very well aware of Herzl's writings. He promoted Zionism, but did not create it. For 2000+ years, Jews have ended both the Passover Seder and the Yom Kippur Service with the phrase "Next year in Jerusalem". Many, many Jewish praryers and places in the Bible speak of Zion. The creation of Zionism (the return of the Jewish people to their ancestral home) is ancient.

History of Jews in Iran shows that Muslim countries can be just as antisemitic as Christian countries.

MG. That is clasasic antisemitism.

Thank you Joseph

Zionists will never accept equality which is why there'll never be peace

Zionism stems from the covenant between God and the Hebrew people. It is central to the soteriology of the religion. Michael is correct. It was called Zionism later. That being said, I support a civil debate. We need some solutions. Zionism means believing that the country of Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish homeland. That is all.

Judaism is not just a religion but a peoplehood and civilization.

Thank you Joseph