Zoom Logo

Debate: Is Israel a Democracy? - Shared screen with speaker view
david suissa
27:02
the ntro taking way too long
Zohar Ianovici
27:59
good evening everyone. Thank you for your patience
Todd Beblow
30:02
Option to vote was not available on my link!!
Todd Beblow
30:45
Tho the final poll result showed up!???
Naphtali Ringel
30:59
It's yes for Jews and no for Arabs
Paul McDermott
32:01
South Africa was also a democracy, but exclusively for whites.
Mimi Goldman
32:16
No one is free unless everyone is.
Andrew Friedman
33:06
Uh…they’re not citizens of Israel. That’s a moved goalpost, to include non-citizens, especially since the Palestinians have their own governments.
emanuel shahaf
33:35
Like Ahmad Tibi, MK said, it’s a democracy for Jews and a Jewish State for Arabs
Mimi Goldman
34:59
Andrew, Same land different rules=apartheid
Paul McDermott
37:00
Friedman... "the Palestinians have their own governments"? Like the Jews had their own governments in the ghettos??
Andrew Friedman
38:39
Mimi - any due respect, it’s not the “same land”. There’s Israel, right? And THEN there’s the West Bank/Gaza. Simply, obviously, that’s not the “same land”.
Elly Levy
40:14
the metric for "same land": who rules!
Naphtali Ringel
40:26
For the settlers and the Israeli Right it is the same land!
Rambod Amirnovin
40:37
they were born in that land, so the question is not if the system considers them a citizen, but why does it not? that's the question.
Andrew Friedman
41:25
Paul, no. 1. There were no governments in the ghettos. No elections. No operational governing bodies with rights. 2. There were no associative international connections and NGO’s assisting.Zero connection.
Mimi Goldman
42:28
There's nothing obvious in your comments to the exclusion of Christians and Arabs/Muslims. Jews were European transports and then the Nakba.
Paul McDermott
43:39
The Judenrats were the governing bodies of the ghettos as much as the PA is the governing body of the Palestinians in the Occupied Territory of the West Bank.
Rambod Amirnovin
44:22
Andrew: you can't use the obvious exclusion of people as justification for excluding them. that's the entire point of the discussion.
Libby Traubman
45:20
It seems to me labels don't matter. It's what works best for all the people regardless of what it is called.
stephen Gilchrist
45:41
Israel have not annexed the West Bank . There remains an occupation due to the refusal of the PA to negotiate a two state so,union. Thus they are not citizens
Paul McDermott
45:49
Israel is an apartheid democracy by design.
Mimi Goldman
46:44
Libby, It hasn't worked since the Nakba but Zionists don't want to hear that.
Libby Traubman
47:58
It doesn't help to get stuck on titles and critical to address human needs. What ever one calls Israel doesn't take into account for the injustices being carried out
Hasan Hammami
48:02
Dershowitz just demonstrated that Israelis aDemocracy for Jews, not any one else. This is an oxymoron
Paul McDermott
48:05
Yes, but Israel has a permanent military occupation. The U.S. did not attempt to colonize Germany and Japan.
Estee Chandler
48:39
True- Israeli belligerence continues
Julieanna Thompson
48:45
IF ISRAEL HAS SO MUCH "FREEDOM OF SPEECH", THEN WHY ARE PEOPLE LIKE PROF. FINKELSTEIN BARRED FROM ENTERING ISRAEL BECAUSE OF HIS CRITICISM OF ISRAEL'S GOV;T IN RELATION TO THE OPPRESSION OF AND LACK OF PALESTINIAN RIGHTS CREATED BY THE OCCUPATION?
Mimi Goldman
48:49
He's justifying the occupation.
Naseer
49:29
He just mentioned Jenin! Where a Palestinian American Journalist was assassinated by a Israeli sniper. And then call it act of belligerence? This is arrogance and racist
Hasan Hammami
50:15
He's justifying a Free Supremacy for Jews, an Apartheid for everyone else
Mimi Goldman
50:27
Nassar, Exactly but he won't discuss it.
Jeff Pollock
50:58
I am very disappointed at all the people who are too busy typing their predetermined conclusions/biases without bothering to listen to the speakers. Why did they even register for this session? If they cannot keep an open mind, then why waste their time? As though the chatters are going to change the mind of the speaker??
Julieanna Thompson
51:03
I BET EVEN I WOULD NOT BE ABLE TO ENTER ISRAEL BECAUSE OF SUPPORTING THE B.D.S. MOVEMENT!!!!
Julieanna Thompson
51:51
people can listen and write at the same time - to Jeff Pollock
Mimi Goldman
51:59
Really Jeff?
Andrew Friedman
52:01
Mimi, Jews are decolonizing our indigenous homeland. There’s no colony by the very definition of the word ‘colony’. We are returning.
Estee Chandler
52:22
Nation state law proves Dershowitz last statement false
Zohar Ianovici
52:28
The US and Israel support the Hamas in Gaza to weaken the power of the PA. They did not expect Hamas will win the democratic elections in 2006 and attempted an armed coup to try and change it.
Len Bennett
52:58
No proof the killing wasn't an Arab.
Elly Levy
53:09
bottom line: a maximalist Israel designed to perpetuate Zionist majority/hegemony, girded by sheer brutality, cannot be a democracy. At what point is a very flawed democracy (alleged) can be seen for what it is: an etthnocracy, through and through.
Zohar Ianovici
53:10
https://theintercept.com/2018/02/19/hamas-israel-palestine-conflict/
Mimi Goldman
53:41
Len, WRONG!!!!!!
emanuel shahaf
54:35
The Hamas victory was predicted and Israel deferred to the US when letting Hamas participate in the election. When Hamas won, Israel didn't recognize the victory and immediately started to limit access to Gaza
Abraham Michelen
54:37
Mr. Dershowitz, What do you think about the violation of the Geneva Convention about the transfer of people from the occupier to the occupied territories?
Andrew Friedman
54:48
Paul, Israel was designed first by the League of Nations and then the United Nations. Did those organizations then “by design” create “apartheid “? No. Borders after a defensive war didn’t create “apartheid”.
Zev Shapiro
55:37
Gazabs can do anything from Egypt and to say Israel controls them is pure bu;; shit! Israel does not control the southern border,
Julieanna Thompson
55:39
PALESTINIANS IN ISRAEL HAVE FEWER RIGHTS THAN JEWS IN ISRAEL.
Jeff Pollock
55:52
I do not know who Mimi Goldman is or her credentials, but ad hominem attacks without any reasoned explanation is not at all proper in this forum or any other.
Naseer
55:54
Gaza a Singapore of the Med? How can this ever be since the port, borders and airways were always blocked and never free. Even before Hamas took over Gaza, tomatoes from Spain and Italy made it to the West Bank cheaper because of the travel restictions.
Abraham Michelen
56:40
Mr. Derschowitz, Israel is a good country for ONLY the Jews. You should know; you know very well.
Naseer
57:03
The IMF encouraged Gaza after Olso to grow and export flowers to Europe. Because of the Blockade (Way before Hamas takeover) they ended up feeding the flowers to goats since they could export them due to Israeli restrictions
Julieanna Thompson
57:18
YES, "democracy" only for Jews living in Israel.
Zev Shapiro
58:16
It created a safe haven for Jews
Mimi Goldman
58:19
The IDF blew up Al Jazeera offices then assassinated one of their journalists.
Andrew Friedman
58:44
Julianna, of course Palestinians who are not citizens have less rights than Israelis - they’re not citizens. Israeli citizens; Christians, Druze, Muslim, B’hai, Samaritans, Jews - all Israeli civilians have the same rights.
Estee Chandler
59:32
Independence from whom?
Bob Herbst
59:33
I think it is unfortunate that the Q being debated is whether Israel is a democracy, as Alan is right that Joseph got off on the wrong foot by suggesting that Parliamentary democracies are not democracies. The Q worthy of debate is whether Israel Palestine is an Apartheid state or regime, which gets to the Q of whether Ps should have democratic rights, which is the Q that Alan has yet to address.
Timekeeper Jeff Warner
59:47
Hannah Arendt did not. She supported a state of its citizens
emanuel shahaf
59:51
Jews are in more physical danger in Israel than elsewhere. That’s why Jews aren't coming…
Julieanna Thompson
59:53
They should all be citizens, unless they're iin the process of becoming citizens due to new immigration.
Hasan Hammami
01:00:17
The Nation State Law of the Jewish People proves it is for Jews, noone else. Not a Democracy, more like an Apartheid State
Zohar Ianovici
01:00:20
Hamas won a fair elections
Rambod Amirnovin
01:00:30
Andrew: again, the question is not what is, but why is it as such. that's the point of the discussion.
Bob Herbst
01:01:44
I think Alan is wrong in saying that 98.5 percent of Jews support Israel being an exclusively Jewish state. A US poll recently found that about 25% of Jewish voters think Israel is an apartheid state and do not believe in a Jewish state.
Mimi Goldman
01:01:44
His speech is dangerous.
Zohar Ianovici
01:01:53
The US attempted a coup after the election in 2006 https://www.theguardian.com/world/2008/mar/04/usa.israelandthepalestinians
Pat Lerman
01:02:00
But Mr. Dershowitz, Israel blocks all sorts of consumer goods from entering Gaza.
Dorothea Dorenz
01:02:09
Israel was rated as a better democracy than the United States. If someone has the source of that rating, please send it in chat. I don’t have the source at hand. thanks
Hasan Hammami
01:02:17
Dershowitz Started from Before Day 1 as a Jewish only State, they forced outover 75% of Palestiniansincluding me and my family too make it only a Jewish State
Zev Shapiro
01:02:33
Israel is too good to Gaza,
Estee Chandler
01:02:42
But Israel prevents Gaza from growing food, raising chickens & controls how many calories of food go into Gaza and admits it. Is that not genocidal?
Andrew Friedman
01:02:52
Hey, Emanuel, it’s been the best year ever for Aliyah. So…you’re incorrect. Jews are returning to our indigenous homeland in record numbers.
Julieanna Thompson
01:03:02
Gazans stand up against the overall Occupation.
Amnon Charash
01:03:09
The Muslims in Israel, who are Israeli citizens, have much better life and freedom than any other Muslims in ALL Muslim and Arab countries!!! And yet, some of them perform terrorist activities against Israeli and Jewish people in Israel.
Zohar Ianovici
01:03:10
Mr. Dershowitz, with all due respect, you haven't respected the challenge you made concerning inaccuracies in your book The Case for Israel
Mimi Goldman
01:03:33
And killing livestock and decimating olive trees.
Estee Chandler
01:03:34
Please show the map presented to the Palestinians
Bob Herbst
01:03:52
Virtually no one the Israeli government supports a 2 state solution, so that is a misleading and deceptive argument.
Naseer
01:03:56
Yes, show the map of the 96%
Zohar Ianovici
01:03:56
yes but Mandella and the ANU were considered terrorists in the US till 2008
Pat Lerman
01:04:06
The PA has token administration of the West Bank. The IDF rolls into Area A frequently, although it supposed to be a PA-administered area.
Ann Kohl
01:04:09
What about zionism and the fact that Israel wants the land without the people?
Elly Levy
01:04:10
I never heard such warping of the reality on the ground. The professor is not tethered to reality and conscious, immoral disregard of continued quasi-genocidal policy (massacres) aginst ghaza
Ali Alkadi
01:04:18
If Israel has a true democracy, Rabin wouldn't have been shot. The killing of the Prime Minister Rabin has proven at that time that the Israeli democracy as they claim, the democracy of all, was a sham.
Estee Chandler
01:04:21
You cannot, because none was actually offered. Only talking points were offered
Dorothea Dorenz
01:04:22
Since Hamas and the PLO hate one another there would have to be a three state solution. Neither hamas nor the Pro want a state of their own: they want to destroy Israel.
Paul McDermott
01:04:23
Dershowitz is using sophist arguments to bolster his argument, especially "whataboutism." Whataboutism is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument.
Eyas Asli
01:04:23
"came back" according to what? a book written in Iraq aks Torah?
Mimi Goldman
01:04:29
There never was a 2 state solution
Eyas Asli
01:04:32
aka*
Abraham Michelen
01:04:45
Mr. Dersahowitz,
Julieanna Thompson
01:05:08
I agree that a "marriage" / IPC wouldn't work now because Israel would VETO most anything that would give Palestinians fair rights - due to fear and/or other "reasons".
Libby Traubman
01:05:16
There isn't enough land left to design two supportive states. It's an old way of thinking
Elly Levy
01:05:35
whole heartedly agree with paul: obfuscation by syllogistic fallacies
Karen Chester
01:05:50
Mr. Dershowitz needs to read the chat and address these questions. I believe he chooses to ignore the true living situation for Palestinians which is presented here.
Abraham Michelen
01:06:09
In your opinion (assuming you really likes to see two states) what should be the territory of Palestine? What should be the capital of Palestine?
Mimi Goldman
01:07:03
Will Mr. D. address the despicable settlers behavior?
Adele Raemer
01:07:11
Israel limits materials that could be used for building weapons. I live on the border and see tens of trucks with goods barrleing down to Gaza every day
emanuel shahaf
01:07:17
Libby is right, 2 states are not an option anymore
Dorothea Dorenz
01:07:18
There are 9.5 million Israelis including Arabs who are 21 % of the population. There are 6.5. million JEws in Israel and more coming every day: from France, Ukraine and elsewhere including the US
esther robbins
01:07:27
The settlers are not going to leave , so, what do you think the borders will be that will be accepted by Abu Mazen ? a question to Dershowitch
Michael Berk
01:07:28
I beg do differ about the "chat." Lively doesn't describe it. It's populated by people who absolutely think they know more than the speakers; whose minds are absolutely made up; and by many people who absolutely hate Israel and don't believe that Jews have a right to sovereignty. Mr. Avesar is simply offering a solution which is a world without a Jewish state.
Zohar Ianovici
01:07:53
what is a jewish state?
Julieanna Thompson
01:08:04
Israel's motive appears to be, certainly, to take the entire Land and control it - perhaps with continuing oppression of Palestinians IN Israel - or not granting citizenship, purposely, in order to maintain "power". LOOK AT THE PATTERN: mile by mile, Palestinian Land has been confiscated by Israel, even AGAINST INTERNTIONAL LAW.
Mimi Goldman
01:08:30
Michael, As a Jew that's an insult
Dorothea Dorenz
01:08:40
Why does Mr. Avesar think that we Jews are safe here in the US forever? We are experiencing a dangerous rise in antisemitism. Is he not aware that our safety here can be just as limited eventually as it has been in many other countries over the centuries? Murder, explosion, over and over again for us Jews.
Andrew Friedman
01:08:43
Adele is correct. 100% correct. Building materials are limited because Hamas and other terror groups use those items for their own uses, not for the people of Gaza.
Naseer
01:08:45
@Michael.. do not assume the chatters here are less knowledgeable than the speakers. Some of us have real life experiences with this situation which is not taught in any classroom
Jeff Pollock
01:08:51
Mimi, that is your sole credential?
Shay Helman
01:08:57
It is very serious to kill animals and cut down olive trees. It's more serious to murder innocent people with axes and knives just because they are Jews. Then give the killers salaries by the Palestinian Authority. I wish there was condemnation of the killers among the Palestinians at least as there is in Israel for loggers.
Dorothea Dorenz
01:09:12
The arabs do not want democracy and religion will not go away ever: not from the Arabs or from the Jews.
Mimi Goldman
01:09:38
I'm a jew. Just stop it.
Zohar Ianovici
01:09:52
Also, what is wrong of holding an opinion that there should be neither a Jewish, Christian, Muslim or any other type of religious/ ethno state?
Dorothea Dorenz
01:10:31
OH dear, where is the reality in his thinking. Then will not be a democracy if Hamas and the PLO have any choice in the matter. There is not ONE democracy in the Middle East except for Israel. So why is Mr. Avesar saying that they want democracy???
Todd Beblow
01:10:45
“Known by many names, One God!”
Zohar Ianovici
01:11:15
Belgium?
Yaakov Nizri
01:11:27
Why are there riots between Muslims and police in Sweden? Who did they conquer?
Zohar Ianovici
01:11:28
United States?
Zohar Ianovici
01:11:50
Switzerland?
Mimi Goldman
01:11:51
Like the u.s., Israelis will never acknowledge their racism.
Naseer
01:12:01
As a Palestinian, I am astonished at the disregard for our humanity. This is not just about democracy or not a democracy. The issue that concerns us is existence. Apartheid, ethnic cleansing and land grabs, access to movement and separation of families from their loved ones and land. This is the issue. Treat us and look at us as humans.
Julieanna Thompson
01:12:31
BOTH SIDES ARE SO ANGRY WITH ONE ANOTHER THAT THEY USE VIOLENCE to "communicate" rather than negotiation with meaningful and HONEST accountability. HOW COULD THAT ANGER BE STOPPED? Well, for starters would be to grant citizenship to minorities in Israel and to allow all to VOTE and have EQUAL RIGHTS: that is a true democracy then.
Jeff Pollock
01:12:31
Zohar, are there not 23ish Arab states already (and are they not founded upon Sharia law)? There cannot be 1 measly New Jersey-sized Jewish state located where the Jews lived historically over 5000 years ago (as proven continuously by all the archeological findings)?
Dorothea Dorenz
01:12:49
Belgium now has a problem with its Muslims who rioted last week because someone insulted the Koran or burned one.. They attacked the police there. There is no apartheid in Israel. Sharia Law doesn’t include democracy.
Naseer
01:12:50
Alan D wants to support a 2 state when Palestine is prison state that he thinks the Palestinian deserve.
Dorothea Dorenz
01:13:21
There is NO history of democracy in the Middle East Arab countries.
Paul McDermott
01:13:33
Mr. D is blaming the victim.
Zev Shapiro
01:13:38
Question!!!! why should the Jews do anything for the Muslim population on the West Bank Or Gaza. They are both Muslim and 2 basic rules they live by is that they musr reconquer Israel and all Jews Ar Dhimi. Why should we give them any rights until the change both those basic principals of Islam!
Karen Chester
01:13:43
My reponse to Nasser's msg. is that it is shocking to me too!
Elly Levy
01:13:43
how are Israeli massacres, administrative detentions, demolotions the fault of palestinians
Julieanna Thompson
01:14:07
Democracy does not / should not allow "Sharia Law". And burkas, as an aside here, I think should not be allowed due to safety: criminals can hide behind burkas!!!!
Dorothea Dorenz
01:14:20
The Israelis managed to make peace with Egypt, Bahrain, and the UAE so why can’t the Palestinians stop their hateful attacks on Israel and come to negotiate a state of their own?
Estee Chandler
01:14:28
Israel is peacefully assassinating journalist, children, mothers & fathers
Estee Chandler
01:14:44
Palestinians had nothing to do with the holocaust
Eyas Asli
01:14:48
This nothing other than a misleading analogy. Pakistan and India have their own territories. unlike Israel that's based on genocides and ethnic cleansing. "Nakba". stop sugar coating Zionism.
Zohar Ianovici
01:15:00
Dorothea, to make peace with Egypt Israel had to give back the land it took.. the other ones had no land claims
Mimi Goldman
01:15:04
Estee, Exactly
MAURO RECHTAND
01:15:09
I really don't understand what happens in Gaza. Who controls what? Air, fudhing, the egupyian border...? May Mr. Alan clear this stuff ?
Hasan Hammami
01:15:14
Dershowitz, listen to yourself Islamopobhic argument about Muslims across the broad.That was the problem in 1930’s Europe against Jews, by Nazis
MAURO RECHTAND
01:15:23
fishing
Elly Levy
01:15:25
Nasser is right. dispense with academic abstractions. address Israeli impunity
Naseer
01:15:27
Peace for Jews = the dehumanization of the Palestinians. Palestinians are asked to sacrifice their rights as Humans for Israeli existence. Does anyone else have an issue with this?
Giacomo Valentini
01:15:46
Mr. Dershowitz's second reply: replace Russia with Israel and Ukraine for Palestine and you get a perfect Putin speech
Abraham Michelen
01:15:53
Jeff Pollock, how Latin American states where most of the population are in the Americas? The fact that there are 22 Arab States, does not imply that the Palestinian State should not exist.
MAURO RECHTAND
01:16:12
have you come here to listen?
Estee Chandler
01:16:33
Who’s going to remove 750k settlers from the Palestinian state?
Ann Kohl
01:16:38
What about taking the land without the people? Policy revealed in Ilan Pappe's books and released Israeli military documents.
stephen Gilchrist
01:16:45
Bravo prof. Dershowitz
Dorothea Dorenz
01:17:05
There is no proof that Israel killed the Journalist . the Palestinians have refused to let the IDF see the bullet!! when they see the bullet they will know who killed her for sure. Stop demonizing Israel with the genocidal lise as well. There are now 5 million Arabs living in Gaza and the W. bank. Where is the Genocide. The Genocide lie is a propaganda ploy by the Palestinians to use this language to convince people that they are being murdered en masse. Stop the Hamas wars and terrorism and the israelis will come to the table to find a solution and hopefully a state could be created.
Naseer
01:17:24
As Palestinians, we want equality and security and do not want to sacrifice our rights and existence for Israel. In a previous visit, Alan D sad that it was impossible that Palestinians should not accept to be totally free
Julieanna Thompson
01:17:31
STRENGTH COMES FROM PEACE, Mr. Dershowitz. But this is a more spiritual approach. "Peace thru strength" is a more materialistic approach and is always missing something--a deeper kind of true Peace, not one that comes from oppressive "peace". Russia isn't going to be more "peaceful" because of losing in Ukraine. It's going to merely stop killing and will "go home", with things Unresolved at that point, at least.
Lawrence Wilkerson
01:17:56
The radical Zionists now in control of Israel are alienating Jews in America, particularly those under 35. Increasingly, they disagree with Israel's radical policies and its leadership. They believe that Israel's policies will eventually create vehement anti-Semitism in the US and jeopardize Jewish success in America. These young Jewish-Americans are less and less religious, marry increasingly across ethnic and religious lines, and do not wish to jeopardize what they have in America -- which they believe Israel is increasingly doing. One could say that the experiment begun in 1948 is failing disastrously, democracy or not.
Dorothea Dorenz
01:18:01
The US is becoming a failed pluralistic state. We are moving toward dictatorship with hate directed at Latinos, Asians, Jews on the right and the left.
Julieanna Thompson
01:18:04
STRENGTH THROUGH PEACE, Mr. Dershowitz, and as purported by Rep. Dennis Kucinich.
Bob Herbst
01:18:09
Alan's argument seems to be based on the premise that Palestinians are an inferior tribe that will accept domination from now on, which is why he can suggest a Palestinian state that is completely unarmed next to an Israeli state armed to the teeth.
Rambod Amirnovin
01:18:13
Zev: neither of those two things are parts Islam. The Jewish people are exalted in Islam as the People of the Book. The Israel outcome is not even addressed by Islam. this is a side effect of years of conflict, not based in actual 'basic' Islam beliefs.
Estee Chandler
01:18:15
Does Dershowitz speak out when Israel announces ethic cleansing of Palestinian towns? Announcements of new illegal settlements?
Adele Raemer
01:18:21
The only reason it has "failed" is because the Palestinian leadership has constantly rejected each and every offer, from the very beginning. How do people not understand that? Palestinians just are unwilling to accept a Jewish democratic country in the Middle East
Adele Raemer
01:19:14
Alan Dershowitz, you ROCK! So clear, so logical - spot on! Thank you!
Jeff Pollock
01:19:23
Paul McDermott, WOW! Victim of what?? Espousing the total destruction of Israel and death to all Jews. As the much more learned than everyone on this call, Professor Dershowitz if the Palestinians had EVER accepted the offer of their own country ALONG SIDE and in COEXISTENCE WITH THE JEWS and not initiated bus bombings, suicide bombings, missiles from areas hidden among civilians, terror tunnels, plane hijackings, ad nauseam. Please understand the context of Israel protecting its own citizenry. Every country has the right and duty to protect its existence and keep out/exclude rioters, covert BDS rebels, terrorists who sneak in to attack innocent children, etc.
MAURO RECHTAND
01:19:39
Iran?
Naseer
01:19:53
Ask a better question.. If Israel is waiting for "Peace," Why is the government sanctioning the seizure or Palestinian neighborhoods in Jerusalem and the West Bank. At the same time, making laws for Jews only to be able to take these lands.
Dorothea Dorenz
01:19:53
Did mr Avesar forget Jewish History? Did he forget the HOlocaust and the hate directed at Jews for centuries? Yes we need Israel for sure and more and more. the Diaspora has been exceedingly dangerous for Jews.
Israel Aharoni
01:20:45
Get back to the topic : Is Israel a Democracy?
Eric Forster
01:20:52
Avesar is pushing lofty ideas with hollow arguments. He should talk about what continued occupation does to the national psyche.
Rambod Amirnovin
01:20:59
Dorothea two wrongs don't make a right.
stephen Gilchrist
01:21:05
Josef, what would you do if you were continually threatened by Iran? Why would Israel not be allowed to defend itself like any other sovereign nation
Elly Levy
01:21:20
adele, study why the so called proposals for peace were utterly untanable and unilateral y onerous from any moral perspective before you summarily dismiss Palestinian "rejection"s of peace.
Adele Raemer
01:21:43
Israel Aharoni, there is n o point Dershowitz clearly explained why Israel IS a democracy and why Avesar's thesis is completely wrong.
Julieanna Thompson
01:22:03
The IPC would deal with problems common to BOTH Israel and Palestine, not internal problems of each "country".
Rambod Amirnovin
01:22:07
Iran is another example of why democracy cannot be religious. it always fails.
Adele Raemer
01:23:06
Elly Levy - what do you suggest I study - can put a link here?
Julieanna Thompson
01:23:19
One of the reasons the U.N. is less powerful is because the USA and Israel vote against Justice in relation to Israel/Palestine - the USA even VETOS recognizing Palestine as a potential "state"!
Naseer
01:23:24
Why does Israel support laws that expand Israeli control and seize Palestinian areas. There is mass building in East Jerusalem. In the West, there is nothing being built like the East. Settler when form 250k to 800K since Oslo. So Alan D is blaming the Palestinians, but we see the reality on the ground.
Elly Levy
01:23:28
debate should be: is Israel, with respect to ALL its subjects, an apartheid street?
Bob Herbst
01:23:36
But Alan, you seem to think that Palestinians being in charge of their own future is also anathema, because they will forever be a threat to Jews. So that leaves you with the argument that Jews will have to remain dominant over Palestinians and Moslems and Iranians and all those you fear forever. That argument is as bankrupt as what you fear from the other tribes
Hasan Hammami
01:23:41
Dershowitz, Italy is the nation state ofthe Italian People,yes, but not hte Christian People, it is the nation state of all its people. Israeli wants itself for tjh epeopleof one Religion, not all its people.
Julieanna Thompson
01:23:46
FREE SPEECH IS N O T ALWAYS GUARANTEED IN ISRAEL!!!!!
Mimi Goldman
01:24:07
Clearly more and more folks disagree with his premise
Jeff Pollock
01:24:29
Abraham, you totally missed the point that THE ARABS SHOULD ALLOW 1 MERE NATION STATE OF THE JEWISH PEOPLE TO EXIST PEACEFULLY AND PEACEABLY. I have no problem with the Palestinians becoming their own 24th or 124th Arab State … if they accept Israel's existence, not try to destroy it, and do it somewhere else than on top of or in place of a tiny Israel and on the graves of Jewish people who do not want to follow Sharia law.
Paul McDermott
01:24:48
The Nation State of Israel = the elimination of the Palestinians as a people. "A land without a people for a people without a land."
MAURO RECHTAND
01:24:57
what defines a Democracy?
Libby Traubman
01:25:00
Taking more land to assure control simply is squeezing the life out of the Palestinian people.
Estee Chandler
01:25:25
Israel has proven unwilling to accept let alone protect the safety of Palestinians
Julieanna Thompson
01:25:30
AGAIN STATED, MR. Dershowitz: Prof. Finkelstein is not allowed in Israel because of speaking out against Israel's policies and actions against Palestinians; I WOULD NOT BE welcome in Israel if they noted that I support BDS!! That's NOT "free speech"!!
Michael Berk
01:25:33
Hasan, the world long ago, through the League of Nations and later the United Nations, that Jews, like the French and English, are a people that deserve sovereignty. Zionism is the national movement of the Jewish people.
Dorothea Dorenz
01:25:37
Hamas and the PLO are squeezing the life out of the Palestinian people.
Adele Raemer
01:26:12
Hamas hold the people of Gaza hostage just as they hold people like me, who live on the border with the Gaza Strip, hostage.
Michael Berk
01:26:22
Hasan, the world long ago, through the League of Nations and later the United Nations, DECIDED that Jews, like the French and English, are a people that deserve sovereignty. Zionism is the national movement of the Jewish people.
Mimi Goldman
01:26:38
Dorthea, Odd logic
Israel Aharoni
01:26:52
Get back please to the topic
Estee Chandler
01:27:06
And Israeli leaders continue to implore the US to attack Iran!! Not visa-versa
Zohar Ianovici
01:27:34
yes, that's bad as well
Julieanna Thompson
01:27:40
Yes, I think it would be better that Hamas and the PLO would merge into a common movement.
Zohar Ianovici
01:27:44
"they too" is a false arguemtn
Elly Levy
01:27:55
right, zohar
Naseer
01:27:58
Can we ask Alan D: What part of Israel is defense with laws that are moving 100s of thousands of Jew to the West Bank, and seizing lands in Jeruslam's Palestinian parts.
Eyas Asli
01:28:05
It's crystal clear that the zionist propaganda is falling apart.
Dorothea Dorenz
01:28:11
There is no history of democracy in the Middle East. When the Palestinians do get their state it ill not be a democracy.
Roey Gilad
01:28:38
By the way Mr. Avesar is talking about Nuclear issues one should question his seriousness.
Jeff Pollock
01:28:38
Julieanna, when did you become an Israeli citizen entitled to free speech in a country you are trying to destroy? Would you expect to go to Russia to criticize Putin in the streets of Moscow and expect to not be jailed immediately? Why should you get to invade any country as a guest and get to overthrow it? Please try to go to Venezuela and criticize Chavez or Iran and criticize the mullahs.
Julieanna Thompson
01:29:11
In the mid 200's, Israel IGNORED Hamas' offer for the 1967 borders AND recognizing Israel.
Mimi Goldman
01:29:16
Palestine was a thriving metropolis until the Nakba
Adele Raemer
01:29:27
Until the Palestinians stop fighting against each other, there is no way they can get to any point of forming a state. They have NO government, NO unity. They cannot come to any solution (peace) with Israel before they come to a solution (peace) with themselves.
Michael Berk
01:29:37
Mimi.... Seriously????????
Julieanna Thompson
01:29:51
Yes, the NAKBA, Mr. Dershowitz? How do you justify that?
Naseer
01:29:58
Palestinians would like a government like Israel, but idea, not practice. A government for all people.
Dorothea Dorenz
01:30:02
The Palestinians are now in the Israeli government and getting more help from the government.
Julieanna Thompson
01:30:18
The NAKBA certainly didn't endear Palestinians to Israelis.
Ramez Tomeh
01:30:27
1. Zionism is a creation of Ashkenazy Jews,
Dorothea Dorenz
01:30:51
The right of return is not guaranteed after any war.
Zohar Ianovici
01:30:58
Israel Palestinians Dorothea, not WB or gaza Palestinians
Adele Raemer
01:31:07
Ramez - Zionism is the heart of Judiasm - we have prayed towards Jerusalem for millenia….
Naseer
01:31:18
The same supreme court that agreed to remove 1000s from land in the west bank last week
Mimi Goldman
01:31:30
Dorthea, Tell that to the Ukrainians
emanuel shahaf
01:31:40
this is the future https://fathomjournal.org/a-proposal-for-a-federal-republic-of-israel/
Zohar Ianovici
01:31:42
Dorothea, many jews claimed rights in EU nations, denying the Palestinians the same is unjust
Ramez Tomeh
01:31:45
2. Ashkenazy Jews are converts into Judaism, for the most part. They are Russians, many of whom immigrated to East European countries.
Mimi Goldman
01:31:46
nonsensical
Dorothea Dorenz
01:32:01
850,000 JEws escaped to Israel from all the Arab middle eastern and N. africn countries. Do you ant the right of return and return of all of their property and wealth to them too??? If not do you really think the right of return should ONLY be applies to the Palestinians??
Hasan Hammami
01:32:09
Michael, The league of Nations did not give anything to anybody. The UN gave The Jewish Immigrants to Palestine 54% ofPalestine. The UN did not consult with the Inhabitants of Palestine, nor did it own any of Palestine to give it anyway. The western wprld paid for 2000 yers of Anti semitic treatment of European Jews, that ended with the Holocaust. They paid for their guilt over the Holocaust by giving the Jews someone else's country.
Naseer
01:32:32
A supreme court that is a tool for Jewish superiority in the land, some of the Judges who live in West Bank settlements.
Adele Raemer
01:32:40
Ramez - are you Jewish?
Ramez Tomeh
01:33:05
Look at their DNA Madame, how many of them can trace their genes to Ancient Israel?
Mimi Goldman
01:33:08
Adele, doesn't matter
Elly Levy
01:33:16
please stop with the one holocaust justifying another: disgusting and disrespectful of holocausr survivors
Ramez Tomeh
01:33:19
3. Does it matter if I am Jewish or not?
Adele Raemer
01:33:23
It totally matters. you would not want Jews to define YOU - you have no right to define Jews.
Mimi Goldman
01:33:46
It doesn't matter.
Naseer
01:33:53
There is a law that allows Jews to claim lands they owned in 1948 in East Jerusalem. This applied to only Jews. So Palestinians, citizens or not, are not allowed by this law. How is this democracy?
Adele Raemer
01:33:57
Ok Mimi.
Eyas Asli
01:34:07
@Michael yes. before 48 Palestine was the third biggest exporter of oranges in the world. and one of the most vital trade centers in the middle east.
Michael Berk
01:34:18
League of Nations recognized the right of the Jewish people to sovereignty. There's a lot of truth in your response to me but it's not the whole story.
Dorothea Dorenz
01:34:25
Mr. Avesar, why don’t you condemn that axe attack by Palestinians? They will not make it any easier for the Palestinians to have a state of their own.
Mimi Goldman
01:34:36
Mr. D. loves to throw around peace and democracy.
Dorothea Dorenz
01:34:52
Stop the violence and see if this new government will come to the table and see if HAMAS and the PLO will come to the table?
Dorothea Dorenz
01:34:56
I doubt it.
Ramez Tomeh
01:35:02
4. the Zionist movement was a colonial settler movement based on the myth of our origin being from Palestine/Ancient Israel. They are as Jewish as the Dutch/Brits were Africans.
Naseer
01:35:14
This is the question directly related to the topic of "Is Israel a democracy?" There is a law that allows Jews to claim lands they owned in 1948 in East Jerusalem. This applied to only Jews. So Palestinians, citizens or not, are not allowed by this law. How is this democracy?
Dorothea Dorenz
01:35:26
American JEws are being killed here too in the US
Adele Raemer
01:35:30
Ramez- Jews are from Judea. We are indigenous to this region.
Mimi Goldman
01:35:36
This man is unbelievable
Elly Levy
01:36:27
mimi: same stale arguments , youre right
Jeff Pollock
01:36:29
Mimi: Enough already. You add nothing to the debate but your curt criticisms of every pro-Jew, pro-Israel, pro-peace comment.
Julieanna Thompson
01:36:29
Accepted, after the NAKBA?
Shay Helman
01:36:37
The most annoying thing is what they do not write. They do not say they do not want to see Jews. They seem to come in the name of humanity. Where is the humanity when Hamas executes civilians in Gaza? And the mass killing in Syria? Say what you really think and do not speak in the name of values you do not believe in. If the Palestinians believed in freedom and human rights, peace would have been here many years ago.
Zohar Ianovici
01:36:40
Recommend everyone to watch "The Human Factor" documentary by Dror Moreh
MAURO RECHTAND
01:36:40
@elly, maybe you could read a little more about the Holocaust? So you could stop writing this kind of nonsense
stephen Gilchrist
01:36:45
As a Jew in the Uk I feel safer knowing that Israel exists.
Hasan Hammami
01:36:52
Dershowitz, The Zionist pland and beliefs were built years before 1948, they wanted a Land without a people for a people without a land. They wanted all Palestine without PALESTINIANS
Paul McDermott
01:36:54
Blame the Palestinians!! Blame the victims!!
Ramez Tomeh
01:36:54
5. They are as much racist as the white SAs. Look at the recent killing of the Al Jazeerah journalist. Whats the point of beating up those carrying her often except for the fact that they could not stand a Palestinian flag on her coffin and in her house.
Zohar Ianovici
01:37:04
Stephen as an Israeli, I feel safer in the UK
Mimi Goldman
01:37:11
LIE!!!!!!!!
Mimi Goldman
01:37:57
I wouldn't be allowed in Israel nor would many other jews.
stephen Gilchrist
01:37:57
Amen to Prof. Dershowitz
Ramez Tomeh
01:38:06
6. As a result of the Holocaust, why did the Zionists not accept taking a part of Germany or the US? Why Palestine?
Elly Levy
01:38:10
does this man live on this planet?
Adele Raemer
01:38:12
Israel did not get reborn because of the Holocaust, THe Holocaust was able to happen because there was no Israel
Pat Lerman
01:38:23
OK, I get it Mr. Dershowitz. You have these dates memorized of alleged “offers" for Palestine with no supporting data. You are an excellent apologist for Israel. But what about the Jersulamites who only have permits to live there and cannot vote for national Israeli officials and can't run for office in Jerusalem itself?
Dorothea Dorenz
01:38:24
Good point Adele
Naseer
01:38:37
The truth is that you are a Nakba denier. Zionist carried out a well planned ethnic cleansing plan to remove 80% of the Palestinians. more than 75% before any Arab army stepped foot in the country.
Rambod Amirnovin
01:38:40
Any argument that states 100% of the blame lies with one side is never correct!
Mimi Goldman
01:39:07
Truth Nasser
Zohar Ianovici
01:39:15
that's an ethnocracy
Adele Raemer
01:39:20
Good point, Rambod
MAURO RECHTAND
01:39:20
7... could you try to listen, Ramez? It seems uou can't
Julieanna Thompson
01:39:35
I agree RA. Both sides can do better!
Elly Levy
01:39:35
indeed, zohar
Naseer
01:39:44
Blame the Palestinians for existing.
Pat Lerman
01:39:45
What about the thousands of non-Jews in Jerusalem whose housing is being demolished daily?
Dorothea Dorenz
01:39:59
dialogue is important as Sharansky wrote.
stephen Gilchrist
01:40:30
I am a member of the Jewish race. I may or may not practice Judaism
Adele Raemer
01:40:33
Thank you, Prof Dershowitz, so much for your support and wisdom. As an Israeli America who lives on the border with the Gaza Strip, I appreciate your hard work.
Mimi Goldman
01:40:45
Dorthea, not when there's only one narrative
Eric Forster
01:40:49
I came in rooting for Avesar, but it is clear Dershowitz won the debate.
Pat Lerman
01:40:55
What about the non-Jewish rural Palestinians who live in Occupied Area C who are being evicted and pushed into Area A, urban ?
Ramez Tomeh
01:41:07
7. Name me one Israeli who does not have a 2nd citizenship; they will never have peace in Israel/Palestine as it is now. And the Palestinians are getting more not less radical. The latest census already shows that the Pals have become a majority What then for the future of a democracy for Israel? Can they make a Jewish state. Why not? Nobody is going torecognize a theocratic state, not even the US.
Julieanna Thompson
01:41:25
ISSUES common to both sides, Josef -. What about internal domestic issues for each side?
Adele Raemer
01:41:34
There are many Moslem countries and only 1 little Jewish one - how can that be denied us?
Naseer
01:41:41
I am not sure what scares me more. When people blame the Palestinians 100% and denies the atrocity and injustice committed against them and believe it. Or those who say it to cover the truth.
Ramez Tomeh
01:42:02
Israel will end up like South Africa. Better for Israel to prepare for that future.
Julieanna Thompson
01:42:04
I thought the IPC would handle ONLY problems common to each side.
Dorothea Dorenz
01:42:29
Mr. Avesar has a peaceful vision but the means and the realities on both sides are not there by a long shot. Hamas supported by Iran , Turkey and now Russia, will not give up its power and its goal of destroying ISrael. Should we trust anything that Hamas says the way we trusted Mr. Arafat who agreed to Oslo with one side of his mouth and incited the Intifada with the other.
Jeff Pollock
01:42:31
Naseer: That statement was the epitome of having a conclusion in mind and then inventing an absurd statement to justify it.
Mimi Goldman
01:42:32
Literally covering the truth.
Lawrence Wilkerson
01:42:58
What is the difference between "a Jewish state” and "a nation state for the Jews”? The semantics remind me of the NYT and its “deeply reported journalism”. What is that? Reporting from the bottom of a trench?
Elly Levy
01:43:24
what does all of this have to do with apartheid practices of Israel, proven and undisputed
Mimi Goldman
01:43:36
Yes Lawrence
Libby Traubman
01:44:00
It is time to stop blaiming and rationalizing anyone and begin to think creatively what works best for the entire area.
Julieanna Thompson
01:44:15
Mr. D: How on earth can the Palestinians have a "state" when Israel keeps stealing Palestinian Land? there's very little land left for a Palestinian State!!
Hasan Hammami
01:44:17
If you don't believe that Judaism is not only a religion,why did Israel take away all the babies of the Yemeni Jews away from their pants and raise them as European Jews???
Naseer
01:44:18
Palestinians are not going anywhere. We are not going to accept anything less than what we are entitled to. Our rights to live in Justice and equal is to important for us. This occupation and apartheid did not rid the earth of us. Time is on our side. We can withstand over time. I pray that wisdom overcomes the irrational and racist ideology that exists today. I hope so for our generation and the future ones.
Lawrence Wilkerson
01:44:18
Israel is a democratic apartheid state. There's a tongue-twister!
Adele Raemer
01:44:21
How can you call aparthide when we have judges, MKs, acadmics, heads of instutions who are Arabs? That is so absurd!
Mimi Goldman
01:44:24
omfg!!!!!!!
Adele Raemer
01:44:50
My fellow Arab citizens have all the rights that I do.
Mimi Goldman
01:45:00
This man is delusional
Zohar Ianovici
01:45:15
not sure your fellow Arab citizens agree with you
Elly Levy
01:45:25
so because we elected obama, there is no institutional racism?!
Zohar Ianovici
01:45:35
In fact, your fellow jewish Israeli citizens don't
Mimi Goldman
01:46:05
Dershowitz is Trump supporter so there's that.
Julieanna Thompson
01:46:16
Mr. D - doesn't want to answer questions? He's leaving now.... hmmmmmm
Len Bennett
01:46:28
Thanks Alan. Nice to see you again.
Paul McDermott
01:46:29
An apartheid democracy, like in apartheid SA.
Eyas Asli
01:46:37
@Adele as a Palestinian citizen of Israel this the dumbest thing I've read in this chat
Dorothea Dorenz
01:46:38
NO questions were allowed in this debate period.
Adele Raemer
01:46:57
It's not an opinion, it's a fact that all citizens have equal rights. I;m not saying that there is no racism on the individual level- of course there are Israelis who are shmucks- but by the law - Arabs have the same rights as I do, Including access to education, welfare, medical care, and much more
Mimi Goldman
01:47:32
No Adele.
Gloria Margulies
01:47:32
“Race” is a social construct
Zohar Ianovici
01:47:35
read a few reports by Jewish Israel human rights organizations like Betselem
Ramez Tomeh
01:47:38
Sorry Mr. Derkowitz, anti-Semitism since 47 has become anti-Arabism and the biggest practioners of anti Semitism are those who are Zionists. They hate the mention of the word arab or muslim. You know very well Muslims and Arabs are not anti Jewish but anti Zionists. YOu , Mr. Derkowitz are the anti-Semite.
Mimi Goldman
01:47:50
Lol!!!!!
Dorothea Dorenz
01:47:54
Looks like those present have some illusion about what a democracy is.
Julieanna Thompson
01:48:01
Israel is NOT a democracy, Mr. D!
Adele Raemer
01:48:02
Eyas - what rights do I have that you do not?
Michael Berk
01:48:17
Thank you professor Dershowitz. If you read the chat you'll be appalled, not surprised, by the ignorance about Israel and the hatred of Israel.
Elly Levy
01:48:17
what good are rights if not exercisable to a meaningful extent?
Lawrence Wilkerson
01:48:21
Votes are never conclusive, eh Mr. Dershowitz?
Oren Yiftachel
01:49:09
dershowitz invented a new type of democracy - where 40% of permanent residents are not citizens... and 16% are second class citizens with no equal rights.. this is called aparth3eid no?
Dorothea Dorenz
01:49:33
Jews hating Jews is the worst nightmare for us: divisiveness is what destroyed Israel in 70 AD
Rambod Amirnovin
01:49:44
not true
Adele Raemer
01:49:51
Dorothea - I agree.
Ramez Tomeh
01:50:31
The best life the Jews had throughout their history was under the Arabs and Muslims, Mr. Shapiro
Julieanna Thompson
01:51:01
Sharia Law can't be a part of democracy. However, Palestinians should be able to vote on issues if they live and are citizens in Israel.
Zohar Ianovici
01:51:03
plenty of jews in turkey
Karen Chester
01:51:15
Jews are not allowed to have diverging opinions? If they do, they are self-hating? I can't agree.
Michael Berk
01:51:16
Ramez, oh my God.. Your distortion of history is breathtaking.
C Morton
01:51:18
"The best life the Jews had throughout their history was under the Arabs and Muslims, Mr. Shapiro" is that why they were chased out lol
Zohar Ianovici
01:51:36
Thank you for the lively debate
Ramez Tomeh
01:52:09
They had to pay a tax for being Jewish? So did the Christians and all non Muslim group. The same was in Europe where for hudreds of years the protestants had to pay such a poll tax until the French Revolution
Julieanna Thompson
01:52:10
A Two-State solution would have been a decent solution; however, Israel keeps stealing Palestinian Land---so what land is there for a true Palestinian State! Israel has worked against Peace in this way.
Hasan Hammami
01:52:45
For over 1300 years,Jews were safer in the Arab and Muslimworld. During the Spanish Inquisition The Catholic church went after the Jews the same way as they did after the Muslims, Most trouble the jews had in their lives is in Europe 2000 years. Beofe Israel, Jews in the Arab world lived as my neighboirs, my fellow students,
Eyas Asli
01:52:46
@Adele you have the right to get a high funded education than me. you have the right to pray peacefully in your synagogue. you have the right to live in any moshav (like Migav) and I don't. not to mention the nation nation state law that labels me as a second class citizen.
C Morton
01:52:49
"A Two-State solution would have been a decent solution; however, Israel keeps stealing Palestinian Land---so what land is there for a true Palestinian State! Israel has worked against Peace in this way"
Julieanna Thompson
01:52:54
Muslim mere talk of wanting to "destroy" Israel is extreme, agreed. But I think it's more angry talk that something practical.
C Morton
01:53:09
u r forgetting Israel gave back Gaza AND Sinai
Abraham Michelen
01:53:16
Mr. Siro, According to some Rabbies the Gentiles (more than 6 billion people) were created ONLY to serve the Jews. Do you believe in this?
Abraham Michelen
01:53:33
*Mr. Shapiro ...
Eyas Asli
01:53:58
gave back? Israel couldn't afford the "security " costs for staying in gaza
C Morton
01:54:20
nah it was,so Sadat wouldn't look a twit
Rambod Amirnovin
01:54:34
Iranian Jews were very well treated before religion destroyed that government. maybe that's the point. religion should have no place in any government that wishes to be a democracy.
מיכל שני
01:54:52
The Mossad kidnapped my mother, a helpless Israeli Jewish woman, and many other women, passed on to Arab terrorists a cover story as if it were not them, urgently rescued, contact me anyone, michal shani
מיכל שני
01:55:03
Please contact me viaMy Whatsapp link https://wa.link/elzd7g
Julieanna Thompson
01:56:01
Good point - about "client states"!
מיכל שני
01:56:18
The Mossad kidnapped my mother, a helpless Israeli Jewish woman, and many other women, passed on to Arab terrorists a cover story as if it were not them, urgently rescued, contact me anyone Please contact me via My Whatsapp link https://wa.link/elzd7g
Marina Bühler-Miko
01:59:13
Joseph has done a good job. Dershowitz throwing past actitities around does not cancel the fact that the Jewish Occupation of the Palestinian people deprives the Palestinian not only of the right to vote but of basic human rights. Aa long as the occupation continues, the Israelis will continue to experience violence.
Mimi Goldman
01:59:41
Oh good grief. It's persecution 101.
Elly Levy
01:59:41
indeed, marina!!
Rambod Amirnovin
02:00:11
that's a very racist statement Dorothea
C Morton
02:00:26
Dorothea is correct
מיכל שני
02:00:32
The Mossad kidnapped my mother, a helpless Israeli Jewish woman, and many other women, passed on to Arab terrorists a cover story as if it were not them, urgently rescued, contact me anyone,Michal shani, from Holon city, Please contact me via My Whatsapp link https://wa.link/elzd7g
Phil Saunders
02:00:48
Thank you Jonathan Gerard. The man who stood above the debate instead of being swallowed by it
Mimi Goldman
02:00:50
Superiority complex Dorthea
Paul McDermott
02:01:05
Israel is only democracy in the M.E? Lebanon is not a democracy? Turkey not a democracy?
C Morton
02:01:42
PM maybe Tunisia
Naomi Katz
02:02:49
So Joseph admits that Israel IS a democracy?!
Eyas Asli
02:03:29
let him speak. we can clearly you're democratic ethics.
Naomi Katz
02:03:41
He is holding up Israel as an example of a Democracy where people came not having prior experience of democracy
Adele Raemer
02:03:55
Excellent point, Naomi!
Libby Traubman
02:04:18
spending all this time on labels and what has or has not worked in the past keeps us stuck in old thinking. It is time to be creative and think in ways that acknowledge we are ALL totally interconnected, interdependent, interrelated. How we choose to live today will detemine life on the planet for EVERYONE. There is no idividual survival any more. Covid and Climate Crisis make that clear.
Adele Raemer
02:04:25
THE HOLOCAUST HAPPENED BECAUSE THER WAS NO ISRAEL
Naomi Katz
02:04:28
Big contradiction to his argument.
Mimi Goldman
02:04:34
European transplants
Adele Raemer
02:04:35
WAS ABLT TO HAPPEN
Elly Levy
02:04:41
democratic semblance only for jews and pre-67, not ALL citizens. Let us confront reality.
Zev Shapiro
02:05:06
He said now they have a democracy and the whole debate he was saying Israel is not a democracy
Zev Shapiro
02:05:12
wtf!!
Nawras Abureehan
02:05:22
Democracy for Jews only
Elly Levy
02:05:24
right Ramez
Adele Raemer
02:05:25
And that's a wrap!
C Morton
02:05:45
is that why Arabs are in Knesset
Adele Raemer
02:05:54
And that s a wrap - Israel IS a democracy according to Joseph
Mimi Goldman
02:06:01
Apartheid is correct. This is the reality.
C Morton
02:06:15
so is suicide bombers
Naomi Katz
02:06:26
Zev Shapiro EXACTLY!
Adele Raemer
02:06:30
Calling Israel an aparthide state is not only wrong, but it disprespects the south african blacks.
Mimi Goldman
02:06:34
Desmond Tutu agreed.
Elly Levy
02:07:16
mimi is right!!! its aprtheid, unequivically, please stop with truncated arguments that its a democarACY OF (ALL) ITS SUBJECTS
Naomi Katz
02:07:36
Adele Exactly!
Rambod Amirnovin
02:08:02
Jews lived in many Muslim countries in peace for centuries. To say otherwise is not historically incorrect.
C Morton
02:08:23
is correct but everything changed
Mimi Goldman
02:08:23
Racist AND disrespectful to both Adele
Rambod Amirnovin
02:08:33
*correct
Zev Shapiro
02:08:52
In the end it doesn't matter what anyone says. Its all up to God. Not anyone in this room.
Elly Levy
02:09:23
GOD IS ONE OF THE PRICIPAL PROBLEMS HERE!!!
Paul McDermott
02:09:56
Adele. The Holocaust occurred because of Christian anti-Semitism. The U.S. and E.U. have offered up Palestine to the Jews because of their guilt. The creation of Israel as a Jewish state has worsened anti-Semitism and fueled Islamophobia (several examples of which have been expressed in this chat).
Zev Shapiro
02:09:58
Your Blaming god for the behavior of People?
Zev Shapiro
02:10:12
People make their own choices
Elly Levy
02:10:41
THERE IS NO GOD, RELIGION IS WEAPONIZED.
Zev Shapiro
02:11:35
God sent me to make peace and sort things out
Mimi Goldman
02:11:38
Zionism is the root problem
Naomi Katz
02:11:46
There was always religious Zionism.
Rambod Amirnovin
02:12:08
The same was true in Iran. Amazing collaboration until religion became a way of government. The State and religion must be separate.
Dan Tennant-Ralphs
02:12:29
salaam shalom from Madrid💟
Elly Levy
02:12:33
ZIONISM IS A POLITICAL IDEOLOGY, SECULAR AT NASCENCY, BUT THEN OPPORTUNISTICALY HIJACKED RELIGION
Naomi Katz
02:12:46
Political Zionism was a 19th century creation among European Jews but religious Zionism always existed.
Ramez Tomeh
02:12:58
Religious Zionism is completely different from political Zionism Mrs Katz.
Paul McDermott
02:13:04
Thank you, Hasan.
Elly Levy
02:13:21
CORRECT
Mimi Goldman
02:13:30
I agree with this man.
Zev Shapiro
02:13:32
Hasan you are a man of Peace
Rambod Amirnovin
02:13:46
beautiful historical perspective Hasan. love it.
Rambod Amirnovin
02:14:00
89
Mimi Goldman
02:14:25
Incredible vision!!!!
C Morton
02:14:35
RESPECT
Gloria Margulies
02:14:37
What religion is Josef Avesar?
Mimi Goldman
02:15:02
doesn't matter Gloria
Karen Chester
02:15:18
Bravo Mr. Hammami
Elly Levy
02:15:43
THANK YOU , HASAN!!
Gloria Margulies
02:16:00
It matters to me. You don’t get to decide that!
Mimi Goldman
02:16:20
why?
מיכל שני
02:16:31
The Mossad kidnapped my mother, a helpless Israeli Jewish woman, and many other women, passed on to Arab terrorists a cover story as if it were not them, urgently rescued, contact me anyone,Michal shani, from Holon city, Please contact me via My Whatsapp link https://wa.link/elzd7g
Mimi Goldman
02:17:24
Exactly!!!
Mimi Goldman
02:18:25
Israelis are incapable of acknowledging the Nakba.
C Morton
02:19:02
mimi do you have anything actually constructive to say?
Hasan Hammami
02:19:03
this is Hasan Hammami Iencoourage everyone who is interested to get the Book by Israel Shahak, Jewish History , Jewish Religion The Weight of 2000 years
Mimi Goldman
02:19:36
c morton, you don't get to control the narrative
C Morton
02:20:04
so?
Mimi Goldman
02:21:29
c morton has nothing
C Morton
02:22:44
let the vitriol go, darling
Mimi Goldman
02:24:00
A respected human rights organization is now "biased". That's rich.
Paul McDermott
02:24:13
Len, you have a distorted view of history.
Elly Levy
02:24:18
BIAS NONEWITHSTANDING, FACTS ARE FACTS. AL HUSSENI DOES NOT SPEAK FOR ALL PALESTINIANS
Elly Levy
02:24:46
SO WAS SHARON, SO WHAT?
Mimi Goldman
02:25:15
cut him off. No question
Elly Levy
02:25:37
REALITY IS REPRESSION. ISRAEL IS THE PREPETRATOR, PERIOD
Paul McDermott
02:25:38
No rant, Lev!!
Ramez Tomeh
02:25:54
PLO did not throw out Christians from Lebanon. The Lebanese Christian militia threw out the Pals. with the help of the Israeli army.
Michael Waterman
02:25:54
Jews have been Zionists for about 3,000 years. When they were conquered by the Babylonians/Persians in 586 BCE and led away in chains to Babylon, they sat at river and cried about going back to Zion. King Cyrus allowed them to return about 100 years later. They were Zionists. When the Hebrews were slaves in about 1300 BCE and left Egypt, they were Zionists who went back to the land of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Zionism has been a central part of Judaism for thousands of years.
Elly Levy
02:26:07
RANT WHEN YOU DON'T LIKE IT
Mimi Goldman
02:26:39
More blaming the victims.
Paul McDermott
02:27:27
The Palestinians have their own homeland. But it's been occupied by Zionists.
Mimi Goldman
02:27:51
Right Paul.
Ramez Tomeh
02:27:55
Who are all these Ashkenazis who are ranting and raving here? What do they have to do with Palestine and ancient Israel? Hello?
Paul McDermott
02:27:57
Again, blame the victims.
מיכל שני
02:28:06
The Mossad kidnapped my mother, a helpless Israeli Jewish woman, and many other women, passed on to Arab terrorists a cover story as if it were not them, urgently rescued, contact me anyone,Michal shani, from Holon city, Please contact me via My Whatsapp link https://wa.link/elzd7g
מיכל שני
02:28:16
Please ask me any question
Ramez Tomeh
02:28:42
Who is this Benny and Len who are getting very emotional?
Mimi Goldman
02:29:32
He's suggesting separation just like SA.
Michael Waterman
02:29:33
Jews have always been subjugated as dhimmi in Muslim lands.
מיכל שני
02:29:37
המוסד חטף את אמא שלי, אישה יהודיה ישראלית, חסרת ישע, ועוד הרבה נשים, זה סחר בבני אדם, העבירו למחבלים ערבים, סיפור כיסוי כאילו זה לא הם, הצילו דחוף, מיכל שני מהעיר חולון,תיצרו איתי קשר כל אחדPlease contact me viaMy Whatsapp link https://wa.link/elzd7gבבקשה תשאלו אותי כל שאלה
Michael Waterman
02:30:11
Jews were tormented and expelled from virtually all Muslim/Arab countries in 1948.
Ramez Tomeh
02:30:17
Hey Michael? Don't you read what was said and stated on this point? That's the problem with fascists
Mimi Goldman
02:31:29
Bam!!
Michael Waterman
02:31:54
Thank you for calling me a Fascist. Proof that you are unwilling to have an intelligent discussion. When you have to resort to name-calling, you show your true colors.
Paul McDermott
02:32:31
So Michael, if Jews have always been subjugated as dhimmi in Muslim lands, is your answer to treat Palestinians as subjugated inferiors. Can you move beyond this? Can you learn from this? Or have you derived the wrong lesson? Might makes right!?
Zev Shapiro
02:32:45
If you don't like it Leave!!! if your not here, do everyone a favor and don't come.
Hasan Hammami
02:32:56
Michael Waterman. Zionism is a political movement , started by an Austrian Journalist, His name is writer.THEODOR HERTZL. Read the History
Mimi Goldman
02:33:54
The Zionists have become what they sought to escape in Europe.
Ramez Tomeh
02:35:27
Then prove me wrong, Michael. I wrote before about all non Muslims had to pay a 2% tax. They were not slaughtered for being a non Muslim. Protestants had to pay a much higher tax in Catholic Europe, including the UK. All that has changed. Move on.
Michael Waterman
02:36:08
I am very well aware of Herzl's writings. He promoted Zionism, but did not create it. For 2000+ years, Jews have ended both the Passover Seder and the Yom Kippur Service with the phrase "Next year in Jerusalem". Many, many Jewish praryers and places in the Bible speak of Zion. The creation of Zionism (the return of the Jewish people to their ancestral home) is ancient.
Mitra Makbuleh
02:36:26
History of Jews in Iran shows that Muslim countries can be just as antisemitic as Christian countries.
Len Bennett
02:36:35
MG. That is clasasic antisemitism.
Hasan Hammami
02:37:04
Thank you Joseph
Mimi Goldman
02:37:14
Zionists will never accept equality which is why there'll never be peace
Sherry Fohr
02:37:17
Zionism stems from the covenant between God and the Hebrew people. It is central to the soteriology of the religion. Michael is correct. It was called Zionism later. That being said, I support a civil debate. We need some solutions. Zionism means believing that the country of Israel has a right to exist as a Jewish homeland. That is all.
Mitra Makbuleh
02:37:18
Judaism is not just a religion but a peoplehood and civilization.
Karen Chester
02:37:19
Thank you Joseph